<div dir="ltr"><h3 style="color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0.3em 0px 0px;padding-top:0.5em;padding-bottom:0px;overflow:hidden;font-size:1.2em;line-height:1.6;font-family:sans-serif"><span class="gmail-mw-headline" style="font-weight:normal">From the W-article: </span></h3><h3 style="color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0.3em 0px 0px;padding-top:0.5em;padding-bottom:0px;overflow:hidden;font-size:1.2em;line-height:1.6;font-family:sans-serif"><span class="gmail-mw-headline"><b style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-size:14px">Trail blazing</b><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-size:14px;font-weight:400"> or </span><b style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-size:14px">way marking</b><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-size:14px;font-weight:400"> is the practice of marking paths...</span><br></span></h3><div>(doesn't say routes). </div><div><br></div><div>About poles and cairns:</div><h3 style="color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0.3em 0px 0px;padding-top:0.5em;padding-bottom:0px;overflow:hidden;font-size:1.2em;line-height:1.6;font-family:sans-serif"><span class="gmail-mw-headline" id="gmail-Poles">Poles</span><span class="gmail-mw-editsection" style="font-size:small;font-weight:normal;margin-left:1em;vertical-align:baseline;line-height:1em;unicode-bidi:isolate"><span class="gmail-mw-editsection-bracket" style="margin-right:0.25em;color:rgb(84,89,93)">[</span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Trail_blazing&action=edit§ion=6" title="Edit section: Poles" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none;white-space:nowrap">edit source</a><span class="gmail-mw-editsection-bracket" style="margin-left:0.25em;color:rgb(84,89,93)">]</span></span></h3><div class="gmail-thumb gmail-tright" style="clear:right;float:right;margin:0.5em 0px 1.3em 1.4em;width:auto;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><div class="gmail-thumbinner" style="min-width:100px;border:1px solid rgb(200,204,209);padding:3px;background-color:rgb(248,249,250);font-size:13.16px;text-align:center;overflow:hidden;width:222px"><br><div class="gmail-thumbcaption" style="border:0px;line-height:1.4em;padding:3px;font-size:12.3704px;text-align:left"><div class="gmail-magnify" style="float:right;margin-left:3px;margin-right:0px"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Markierung_Alpiner_Wanderweg.jpg" class="gmail-internal" title="Enlarge" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background-color:initial;display:block;text-indent:15px;white-space:nowrap;overflow:hidden;width:15px;height:11px"></a></div>Pole marker on an <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_route" title="Alpine route" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none">Alpine route</a> at Piz Uccello, Switzerland</div></div></div><p style="margin:0.5em 0px;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">Poles, colored or not, are often used to keep the trail visible during winter and under snow cover.<sup id="gmail-cite_ref-6" class="gmail-reference" style="line-height:1;unicode-bidi:isolate;white-space:nowrap;font-size:11.2px"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_blazing#cite_note-6" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none">[6]</a></sup> </p><h3 style="color:rgb(0,0,0);margin:0.3em 0px 0px;padding-top:0.5em;padding-bottom:0px;overflow:hidden;font-size:1.2em;line-height:1.6;font-family:sans-serif"><span class="gmail-mw-headline" id="gmail-Cairns">Cairns</span><span class="gmail-mw-editsection" style="font-size:small;font-weight:normal;margin-left:1em;vertical-align:baseline;line-height:1em;unicode-bidi:isolate"><span class="gmail-mw-editsection-bracket" style="margin-right:0.25em;color:rgb(84,89,93)">[</span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Trail_blazing&action=edit§ion=7" title="Edit section: Cairns" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none;white-space:nowrap">edit source</a><span class="gmail-mw-editsection-bracket" style="margin-left:0.25em;color:rgb(84,89,93)">]</span></span></h3><div class="gmail-hatnote gmail-navigation-not-searchable" style="font-style:italic;padding-left:1.6em;margin-bottom:0.5em;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">Main article: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairn" title="Cairn" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none">Cairn</a></div><div class="gmail-hatnote gmail-navigation-not-searchable" style="font-style:italic;padding-left:1.6em;margin-bottom:0.5em;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span style="font-style:normal">Cairns are carefully arranged piles of stones. Cairns are most commonly used to indicate trails in open areas, such as higher-elevation</span><span style="font-style:normal"> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_climate" title="Alpine climate" style="background:none;font-style:normal;text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173)">alpine areas</a><span style="font-style:normal">, where no trees are available, or where conditions may make blazes hard to see.</span><sup id="gmail-cite_ref-:0_4-1" class="gmail-reference" style="font-style:normal;line-height:1;unicode-bidi:isolate;white-space:nowrap;font-size:11.2px"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_blazing#cite_note-:0-4" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(6,69,173);background:none">[4]</a></sup><span style="font-style:normal"> </span></div><div class="gmail-hatnote gmail-navigation-not-searchable" style="font-style:italic;padding-left:1.6em;margin-bottom:0.5em;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></div><div class="gmail-hatnote gmail-navigation-not-searchable" style="font-style:italic;padding-left:1.6em;margin-bottom:0.5em;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span style="font-style:normal">Doesn't say routes. </span><br></div><div class="gmail-hatnote gmail-navigation-not-searchable" style="font-style:italic;padding-left:1.6em;margin-bottom:0.5em;color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span style="font-style:normal"><br></span></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Peter Elderson</div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Op wo 2 jun. 2021 om 19:12 schreef Volker Schmidt via Tagging <<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Sometimes it is useful to consult Wikipedia: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_blazing" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_blazing</a><div dir="auto">This article states that Waymarking and Trail Blazing are about routes being waymarked with man-made signs.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">A specific situation where a cycling or hiking route is in a limbo between fully existing (all the road infrastructure is in place and the entire route is waymarked) and under construction (state=construction) or only proposed (state=proposed) is a state where all the highway work is finished, but no waymarking has been applied yet. That state could be described by a normal route relation with trailblazed=no or waymarked=no. This situation is not infrequent here, as often the roadwork is an independent contract from applying waymarks.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 2 Jun 2021, 14:42 Jan Michel, <<a href="mailto:jan@mueschelsoft.de" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">jan@mueschelsoft.de</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On 02.06.21 12:49, Peter Elderson wrote:<br>
> * If a route is not waymarked, it should not be in OSM (with a few <br>
> special exceptions). So you do not need trailblazed=* on a route. Just <br>
> symbol and/or osmc:symbol.<br>
<br>
You're right that a route shouldn't be trailblazed=no. But trailblazed=* <br>
is also used to tag the kind of waymarking. Cairns or poles should be <br>
sufficient to count as waymarking of a route, but can't be described by <br>
symbol tags.<br>
<br>
<br>
> * Some ways can only be seen through some kind of markings. Mostly these <br>
> markings are not symbols, but poles or cairns. The traiblazed=* tag <br>
> addresses that.<br>
<br>
In my opinion, trailblazing and visiblity of the path are two different <br>
things. And indeed we also have trail_visiblity as a separate tag.<br>
<br>
> This tagging instruction is clear enough, but the description " Markings on outdoor paths and trails by signs, markers, poles, cairns or in another way. " does not reflect that. I think the description should be changed.<br>
<br>
I agree.<br>
<br>
<br>
Jan<br>
<br>
<br>
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