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<p>I have surveyed about 300 benchmarks (crowsfeet) in Ireland which
are on old Ordnance survey maps, but i only add those where I can
confirm the location, of course. These benchmarks were chiselled
into existing structures, mostly walls and bridges, but sometimes
milestones or just large stones in a field (very few of those
left). However, some have clearly been moved which is recognisable
by the stone having been rotated by 90 or 180° or being on the
wrong side of a wall or gatepost in comparison to the old maps. I
would therefore propose a <font face="Courier New, Courier,
monospace">survey_point:structure=moved</font> rather than
survey_point:structure=none to indicate that the survey point is
no longer in its original position. I usually left a note or used
moved=yes already. I haven't always checked against older maps,
though, in cases where I didn't go looking for them and just found
them.<br>
</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://overpass-turbo.eu/?q=LyoKVGhpcyBoYcSGYmVlbiBnxI1lcmF0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIG92xJJwxIlzLXR1cmJvIHdpemFyZC7EgsSdxJ9yaWdpbmFsIHNlxLBjaMSsxIk6CsOiwoDCnMSLbsWCbcSwaz15ZcSGxLogSXJlbGFuZMWIwp0KKi8KW291dDpqc29uXVt0aW1lxaXFpzI1XTsKLy8gZmV0xYIgxLDFgCDFiMKcxZfFmcWbxZ3CgMKdxJvEq8S_xYHFg8S6Cnt7xJBvY29kZUHFmGE6xofFmsWcfX0tPi7Gj3LFgsacxYDFuMW6xI_ElMSdciDFmHN1bHRzCigKICDGrnF1xJLEmsSjcnTFvG9yOsaExYnFi8WNxY_FkcWTxZ7GvCBud3JbIseNaMWOcmsiPSLFknMiXSjGgmHGp8WAxqloxqthKcW4x6_FucW7cMS3bseGxrTGtsa4CsWzxJjGmXnFuD7FuMe8c2vFmSBxdDs&c=BG7fzs-JkI&R">http://overpass-turbo.eu/?q=LyoKVGhpcyBoYcSGYmVlbiBnxI1lcmF0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIG92xJJwxIlzLXR1cmJvIHdpemFyZC7EgsSdxJ9yaWdpbmFsIHNlxLBjaMSsxIk6CsOiwoDCnMSLbsWCbcSwaz15ZcSGxLogSXJlbGFuZMWIwp0KKi8KW291dDpqc29uXVt0aW1lxaXFpzI1XTsKLy8gZmV0xYIgxLDFgCDFiMKcxZfFmcWbxZ3CgMKdxJvEq8S_xYHFg8S6Cnt7xJBvY29kZUHFmGE6xofFmsWcfX0tPi7Gj3LFgsacxYDFuMW6xI_ElMSdciDFmHN1bHRzCigKICDGrnF1xJLEmsSjcnTFvG9yOsaExYnFi8WNxY_FkcWTxZ7GvCBud3JbIseNaMWOcmsiPSLFknMiXSjGgmHGp8WAxqloxqthKcW4x6_FucW7cMS3bseGxrTGtsa4CsWzxJjGmXnFuD7FuMe8c2vFmSBxdDs&c=BG7fzs-JkI&R</a>
(don't know why it doesn't give me the short link)</p>
<p>Well done on the proposal!</p>
<p>Anne<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 04/06/2021 05:58, Kyle Hensel wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi, thanks for the feedback</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I agree if the survey point still exists
but just the structure has been removed, then this proposal
would suggest updating the tags from
`survey_point:structure=(whatever) ` to `
survey_point:structure=none`</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">> If you remove the point because it is
no longer easily visible<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">That’s not what’s suggested – if a survey
marker still exists but is not easily visible, the proposal is
to tag it as `survey_point:condition=not_visible`<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So this:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">survey_point:structure=none<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">survey_point:condition=not_visible<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is totally fine to map. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I was just proposing that if neither the
survey point nor the structure exists anymore, then it should
be removed from OSM.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This would only happen if a natural
disaster or man_made earthworks removed all traces of it... do
you think this is logical?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">My rationale for suggesting this, is that
OSM shouldn’t be used to map historical, non-existent things
according to:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Don't%20map%20historic%20events%20and%20historic%20features"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Don't%20map%20historic%20events%20and%20historic%20features</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0cm"><b>From:
</b><a href="mailto:geodesy99@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Michael Patrick</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Friday, 4 June 2021 16:27<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC -
Survey Markers</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">> >
survey_point:condition=destroyed is not proposed. If the
survey marker no longer exists, it should be deleted from
OSM.
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The survey point and observable
evidence still exist, even though the monument may no
longer be present. Monuments are 'lost' and 'recovered'
all the time because of all sorts of events - vandalism,
crime, natural disasters, land slips, forestry activity,
etc. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">There is a whole domain of
archeological survey forensics, with techniques such as
discontinuities in soil, presence of rust particles,
dissecting trees to find blazes, and even collecting oral
histories.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you remove the point because it is
no longer easily visible, then you are also obligated to
remove many of the intermediary points that define the
polylines of a lot of admin and park boundaries - those
once had markers also ( especially near rivers ) and are
now missing. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Michael Patrick<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
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