<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Joseph,</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mar. 15 juin 2021 à 03:06, Joseph Eisenberg <<a href="mailto:joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com">joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com</a>> a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">This proposal suggests that all power=pole nodes can have two new tags added: utility=power and man_made=utility_pole</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>No it doesn't, in proposal:<br></div><div>"As to prevent unneeded editing and undiscussed replacement of <tt dir="ltr" class="gmail-mw-content-ltr" style="background:rgb(238,238,255) none repeat scroll 0% 0%;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power" title="Key:power">power</a>=<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dpole" title="Tag:power=pole">pole</a></tt> by <tt dir="ltr" class="gmail-mw-content-ltr" style="background:rgb(238,238,255) none repeat scroll 0% 0%;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:man_made" title="Key:man made">man_made</a>=<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dutility_pole" title="Tag:man made=utility pole">utility_pole</a></tt>, <b>mappers will be warned to not mix both and preserve <tt dir="ltr" class="gmail-mw-content-ltr" style="background:rgb(238,238,255) none repeat scroll 0% 0%;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power" title="Key:power">power</a>=<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dpole" title="Tag:power=pole">pole</a></tt></b>."</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Lato,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(32,33,34)">Adding "man_made=utility_pole + utility=power" as synonym of </span><tt dir="ltr" style="font-size:1em;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1.6;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:rgb(238,238,255);color:rgb(32,33,34)"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power" title="Key:power" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background-image:none;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(107,75,161)" target="_blank">power</a>=<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dpole" title="Tag:power=pole" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background-image:none;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(107,75,161)" target="_blank">pole</a></tt><span style="font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Lato,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(32,33,34)"> is not helpful, I would rather deprecate </span><tt dir="ltr" style="font-size:1em;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1.6;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:rgb(238,238,255);color:rgb(32,33,34)"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:utility" title="Key:utility" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background-image:none;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(107,75,161)" target="_blank">utility</a>=<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:utility%3Dpower" title="Tag:utility=power" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background-image:none;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(107,75,161)" target="_blank">power</a></tt><span style="font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Lato,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(32,33,34)">and consider it as an unnecessary  duplicate of </span><tt dir="ltr" style="font-size:1em;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1.6;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:rgb(238,238,255);color:rgb(32,33,34)"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power" title="Key:power" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background-image:none;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(107,75,161)" target="_blank">power</a>=<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dpole" title="Tag:power=pole" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background-image:none;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(107,75,161)" target="_blank">pole</a></tt><span style="font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Lato,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(32,33,34)"> / </span><tt dir="ltr" style="font-size:1em;margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1.6;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:rgb(238,238,255);color:rgb(32,33,34)"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power" title="Key:power" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background-image:none;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(107,75,161)" target="_blank">power</a>=<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtower" title="Tag:power=tower" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background-image:none;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(107,75,161)" target="_blank">tower</a></tt></div></blockquote><div>I agree, that's why the proposal states clearly power=pole and power=tower remains as this and nobody is encouraged to replace it.</div><div><br></div><div>As utility=power is used on a wide diversity of features (markers, buildings, cabinets, ...), why deprecate it sounds like a solution?</div><div><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Autility%3Dpower">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Autility%3Dpower</a></div><div><br></div><div>Again, in proposal: "<b>Edit</b> <tt dir="ltr" class="gmail-mw-content-ltr" style="background:rgb(238,238,255) none repeat scroll 0% 0%;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:man_made" title="Key:man made">man_made</a>=<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dutility_pole" title="Tag:man made=utility pole">utility_pole</a></tt>, make it approved except for power poles and add relevant examples."</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><dl><dd style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Lato,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background-image:none;overflow:auto;color:rgb(32,33,34)">Are you proposing to eventually deprecate <tt dir="ltr" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Lato,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1.6;font-size:1em;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:rgb(238,238,255)"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power" title="Key:power" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Lato,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background-image:none;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(107,75,161)" target="_blank">power</a>=<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dpole" title="Tag:power=pole" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Lato,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background-image:none;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(107,75,161)" target="_blank">pole</a></tt> and instead use <tt dir="ltr" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Lato,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1.6;font-size:1em;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:rgb(238,238,255)"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:man_made" title="Key:man made" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Lato,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background-image:none;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(107,75,161)" target="_blank">man_made</a>=<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dutility_pole" title="Tag:man made=utility pole" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Lato,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background-image:none;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(107,75,161)" target="_blank">utility_pole</a></tt> + <tt dir="ltr" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Lato,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1.6;font-size:1em;vertical-align:baseline;background-color:rgb(238,238,255)"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:utility" title="Key:utility" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Lato,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background-image:none;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(107,75,161)" target="_blank">utility</a>=<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:utility%3Dpower" title="Tag:utility=power" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px none;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Lato,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-style:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;background-image:none;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(107,75,161)" target="_blank">power</a></tt>? That seems to be the only reason to propose duplicating these tags.</dd></dl></div></blockquote><div>No, this is not what is proposed here</div><div>Implication is not duplication.<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">I asked this on the talk page and you did not really answer my question: obviously this proposal does not deprecate power=pole, but it seems like that might be  your long-term goal</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This point has been resolved on talk page associated with a second one: "<span style="font-size:85%">Tag <tt dir="ltr" class="gmail-mw-content-ltr" style="background:rgb(238,238,255) none repeat scroll 0% 0%;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power" title="Key:power">power</a>=<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dpole" title="Tag:power=pole">pole</a></tt> is preserved and mappers aren't encouraged to mix <tt dir="ltr" class="gmail-mw-content-ltr" style="background:rgb(238,238,255) none repeat scroll 0% 0%;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:man_made" title="Key:man made">man_made</a>=<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dutility_pole" title="Tag:man made=utility pole">utility_pole</a></tt> and <tt dir="ltr" class="gmail-mw-content-ltr" style="background:rgb(238,238,255) none repeat scroll 0% 0%;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power" title="Key:power">power</a>=<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dpole" title="Tag:power=pole">pole</a>"</tt></span></div><div><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Utility_poles_proposal#Adding_man_made.3Dutility_pole_to_power.3Dpole.3F">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Utility_poles_proposal#Adding_man_made.3Dutility_pole_to_power.3Dpole.3F</a></div><div><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Utility_poles_proposal#Against_man_made.3Dutility_pole_.2B_utility.3Dpower">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Utility_poles_proposal#Against_man_made.3Dutility_pole_.2B_utility.3Dpower</a></div><div><br></div>This proposal is directed towards way less used telecom=pole, to prevent defining additional specific tagging for utilities as we already have unreviewed man_made=utility_pole used 36k times.</div><div class="gmail_quote">The most was added during the past year, not my own contribution.</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">All the best</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">François<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div></div>