<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
It is true that a lot of people know cultivation from agriculture but it is not limited to that. Take look at the quote from the gardening wiki below. There it also describes it as cultivating plants. Agriculture is indeed a good example of what would be cultivated=intensely/fully
and therefore we also imply that on the tag landuse=farmland atc.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<b style="color: rgb(32, 33, 34); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">"Gardening</b><span style="color: rgb(32, 33, 34); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important;"><span> </span>is
the practice of growing and <u>cultivating </u>plants as part of<span> </span></span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horticulture" title="Horticulture" style="color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">horticulture</a><span style="color: rgb(32, 33, 34); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important;">.
In gardens,<span> </span></span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ornamental_plant" title="Ornamental plant" style="color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">ornamental plants</a><span style="color: rgb(32, 33, 34); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important;"><span> </span>are
often grown for their<span> </span></span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower" title="Flower" style="color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">flowers</a><span style="color: rgb(32, 33, 34); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important;">,<span> </span></span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaf" title="Leaf" style="color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">foliage</a><span style="color: rgb(32, 33, 34); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important;">,
or overall appearance; useful plants, such as<span> </span></span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_root_vegetables" title="" style="color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">root vegetables</a><span style="color: rgb(32, 33, 34); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important;">,<span> </span></span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaf_vegetable" title="Leaf vegetable" style="color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">leaf
vegetables</a><span style="color: rgb(32, 33, 34); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important;">,<span> </span></span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit" title="Fruit" style="color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">fruits</a><span style="color: rgb(32, 33, 34); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important;">,
and<span> </span></span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herb" title="Herb" style="color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">herbs</a><span style="color: rgb(32, 33, 34); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important;">,
are grown for consumption, for use as<span> </span></span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dye" title="Dye" style="color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">dyes</a><span style="color: rgb(32, 33, 34); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important;">,
or for<span> </span></span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine" title="Medicine" style="color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">medicinal</a><span style="color: rgb(32, 33, 34); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important;"><span> </span>or<span> </span></span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmetics" title="" style="color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">cosmetic</a><span style="color: rgb(32, 33, 34); font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important;"><span> </span>use" <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardening" id="LPlnk150426">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardening</a></span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
I am always open for discussion so if you know a better word, feel free to tell me. Note that shrubbery V1 also covered a lot of alternatives already like manicured=* and landscaped=* and they didn't make it for reasons.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
Vincent</div>
<div id="appendonsend"></div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>Van:</b> Peter Elderson <pelderson@gmail.com><br>
<b>Verzonden:</b> zaterdag 24 juli 2021 23:55<br>
<b>Aan:</b> Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <tagging@openstreetmap.org><br>
<b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Shrubbery V2</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I am obviously not a native spear of English, but I think cultivated does not express what you want. MW says:
<div>
<div class="x_sb x_no-sn" style="font-size:16px; box-sizing:border-box; margin:0px 0px 20px; padding:0px; border:0px; font-family:Lato,"Open Sans",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-stretch:inherit; line-height:inherit; vertical-align:baseline; color:rgb(33,37,41); letter-spacing:0.20000000298023224px">
<span class="x_sb-0" style="box-sizing:border-box; margin-right:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; padding:0px; border:0px; font-family:"Open Sans",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:18px; font-style:inherit; font-variant-caps:inherit; font-stretch:normal; line-height:22px; vertical-align:baseline; letter-spacing:0.2px; display:block; margin-top:0px!important">
<div class="x_sense x_no-subnum" style="box-sizing:border-box; margin:0px; padding:0px; border:0px; font-family:inherit; font-size:inherit; font-style:inherit; font-variant-caps:inherit; font-stretch:inherit; line-height:inherit; vertical-align:baseline; display:inline">
<span class="x_dt" style="box-sizing:border-box; margin:0px; padding:0px; border:0px; font-style:inherit; font-variant-caps:inherit; font-stretch:normal; line-height:22px; vertical-align:baseline; letter-spacing:0.2px; color:rgb(48,51,54); display:inline"><span class="x_mw_t_bc" style="box-sizing:border-box; margin:0px; padding:0px; border:0px; font-family:inherit; font-size:inherit; font-style:inherit; font-variant-caps:inherit; font-stretch:inherit; line-height:inherit; vertical-align:baseline">: </span>raised
or grown on a farm or under other controlled conditions</span></div>
</span><span class="x_sb-0" style="box-sizing:border-box; margin-right:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; padding:0px; border:0px; font-family:"Open Sans",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:18px; font-style:inherit; font-variant-caps:inherit; font-stretch:normal; line-height:22px; vertical-align:baseline; letter-spacing:0.2px; display:block; margin-top:0px!important"><span class="x_mw_t_bc" style="color:rgb(48,51,54); font-style:inherit; font-variant-caps:inherit; letter-spacing:0.2px; font-family:inherit; font-size:inherit; box-sizing:border-box; margin:0px; padding:0px; border:0px; font-stretch:inherit; line-height:inherit; vertical-align:baseline">: </span><span style="color:rgb(48,51,54); font-style:inherit; font-variant-caps:inherit; letter-spacing:0.2px; font-family:inherit; font-size:inherit">prepared
and used for growing crops</span></span><span class="x_sb-0" style="box-sizing:border-box; margin-right:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-left:0px; padding:0px; border:0px; font-family:"Open Sans",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:18px; font-style:inherit; font-variant-caps:inherit; font-stretch:normal; line-height:22px; vertical-align:baseline; letter-spacing:0.2px; display:block; margin-top:0px!important"><span class="x_mw_t_bc" style="color:rgb(48,51,54); font-style:inherit; font-variant-caps:inherit; letter-spacing:0.2px; font-family:inherit; font-size:inherit; box-sizing:border-box; margin:0px; padding:0px; border:0px; font-stretch:inherit; line-height:inherit; vertical-align:baseline">: </span><span style="color:rgb(48,51,54); font-style:inherit; font-variant-caps:inherit; letter-spacing:0.2px; font-family:inherit; font-size:inherit">having
or showing good education, taste, and manners</span></span></div>
<div>Cultivated seems to be about raising / growing plants and crops, and not so much about keeping shrubs nice and manicured in decorative or protective patches. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You could argue it falls under "controlled conditions" but I think that refers to what the plants need for growth, like how much light they need or if they need pruning or irrigation, not so much how you shape the bush.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Peter Elderson</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">Op 24 jul. 2021 om 21:31 heeft Vincent van Duijnhoven <vvanduijnhoven@outlook.com> het volgende geschreven:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
About the comment on the talk page, I am also considering the values there, so cultivated=no, cultivated=yes (named semi-natural in the proposal) and cultivate=intensely (name cultivated in the proposal). I still not so sure about the density tags as I described
on the talk page,</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
About the ¨Little bit of care" scrub. From the images, I also agree that these are uncultivated scrub. With the semi-natural scrub, we meant more like this: <a href="https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.nl%2Fmaps%2F%4051.1893347%2C6.022003%2C3a%2C21.6y%2C310.38h%2C86.67t%2Fdata%3D!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s59cpQAboumsVWUy5A_TgPk2Wkw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ca89dadb807744cebf78308d94eee4780%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637627607621288986%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=pG38pA0B2YHwnzEMa3Wnv06KjfU9dqQcvZpg3HIW%2F7k%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://www.google.nl/maps/@51.1893347,6.022003,3a,21.6y,310.38h,86.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s59cpQAboumsVWUy5A_TgPk2Wkw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192" shash="h7Wg7FXcnKuNo+NFWS4FATuLBW9Ka8NO7HBGsuf6j9mH8c2OY4VN7mjWVIDW8u5VQiz5Wnna2aAzS0Itjl0ImUXb5iDu+kBGv4LKF0FeioyFO213E/m7TzDilO+5B7VlScidCGuVzi0sTZ/Gt9JcI4c4HyzA4FSBhq8x0EEFRBQ=" id="LPlnk">https://www.google.nl/maps/@51.1893347,6.022003,3a,21.6y,310.38h,86.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s59cpQAboumsVWUy5A_TgPk2Wkw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192</a></div>
<div class="x__Entity x__EType_OWALinkPreview x__EId_OWALinkPreview x__EReadonly_1">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
About the word shrubbery, it is just a word to describe those highly cultivated shrubs. </div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Greetings,</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Vincent</div>
<div id="x_appendonsend"></div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>Van:</b> Graeme Fitzpatrick <graemefitz1@gmail.com><br>
<b>Verzonden:</b> zaterdag 24 juli 2021 8:45<br>
<b>Aan:</b> Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <tagging@openstreetmap.org><br>
<b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Shrubbery V2</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="x_x_gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="x_x_gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="x_x_gmail_attr">On Fri, 23 Jul 2021 at 16:52, Vincent van Duijnhoven <<a href="mailto:vvanduijnhoven@outlook.com">vvanduijnhoven@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="x_x_gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Why and how do you think cultivated can be mis-used? </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I agree with a lot of what was mentioned at <a href="https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.openstreetmap.org%2Fwiki%2FTalk%3AProposed_features%2Fshrubbery%23Suggestion_to_reconsider_the_values&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ca89dadb807744cebf78308d94eee4780%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637627607621288986%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=2k%2F%2BCT41NycxNFrfX%2F4NOkYzYajXiN%2BIIIHe9572Bak%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/shrubbery#Suggestion_to_reconsider_the_values" shash="JQNLLxIOeQQdQ8XMd55oYJ2Tk6boJ8Hrza4ubsgrTL0nOOMeapoHnRh3KoxQUrRA2IGX2HbGXtxmkXiQdRjf6oroeOJHK9gRREQa1OU2lyY73cr5Bb9Hnm5Mjtl6Cleuwno1pMunraRea53mt17SuFf7VpDC/ZAuroYxJbua64Y=" originalsrc="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/shrubbery#Suggestion_to_reconsider_the_values" shash="A8R1d4To917LPitORJ/XrBrDB9hMgWuOxM7HzXOkMdLdPn5JIZToDBXCKaWRF7JHIS4mTU3Naby67aSUfDUqbpTDwu1E4Tr+VZt3tQc+hChdBsjq1Arzjk6wgDLQvohq3UQ1eGLIPqCajS1cDnpBJOjH6VYONJKWuKOtob2Bf38=">
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/shrubbery#Suggestion_to_reconsider_the_values</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>In particular, when is a "little" bit of care "cultivation"?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think I mentioned this example in the original proposal, but <a href="https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgoo.gl%2Fmaps%2FWgxKvu2KoPJkK7oX6&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ca89dadb807744cebf78308d94eee4780%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637627607621298943%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=BW2sHQIMoTOc4fE2nOz%2FQPA8m1EuQoodGigZywr3g7k%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://goo.gl/maps/WgxKvu2KoPJkK7oX6" shash="SqgZTSflvt8909DWtOLVVR+YC84vX0OiJxw57rVWt5tlQXBkSuv/U9J2PajFv1LPo6IFOIXWKRY12wybyzJt7X4fYRfgDtT8jFYS0CRngKNZG5ox+V7w0PuZLCC2AyB2taePj48EqGi3+r3/0Nwf5GHESroCy6MX5QXaZtyynZ4=" originalsrc="https://goo.gl/maps/WgxKvu2KoPJkK7oX6" shash="as2pLvggW0OJbf93xoUgipz6pNkwWOYhcJUMrJ78kDJU/fd9q7qOdhKmdhW3kJT66av143FmpgE+12jlIplidwP37PjyMXtoERxfF7hkwWA5WmbsoVc+GS1n+ExiXwv7nBWlJBgNxYZo60RGzj553q/OXHtc+fHh0XEMUJ5j9iA=">
https://goo.gl/maps/WgxKvu2KoPJkK7oX6</a> & <a href="https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgoo.gl%2Fmaps%2FUaDo4zmcEEcWeeFW6&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ca89dadb807744cebf78308d94eee4780%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637627607621298943%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=cDvwYvTxHG4IqlpIV4PR02sGmAWe5KLRlGQ4arj%2ByQs%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://goo.gl/maps/UaDo4zmcEEcWeeFW6" shash="dQYDUF/Haz3jHxHQX4s76uvgEby6dcSZmk7wifPTwVhmDup3b7r3v25tq35VZDy7tV5/GQPhCTcf+nee+gESmPJQshGNzPRZ/oBNk0ujBmfY2RYOBuY7+b116dEH4nJ3X+Nm+lhh4rs5B+jZUiMa+DHuyfpq9RQOVUY5mlf1liY=" originalsrc="https://goo.gl/maps/UaDo4zmcEEcWeeFW6" shash="siSp0YZ1j16m60K39m9JhWMn0vdrtQepWZKpYb5/Epcc3UG9quChqUmQqoMmLay0W4uABYNdkPOXUjNGR+Uei8GjKSbfUbD+ZrUO8QbQKHw8rLs8YC/3zbcSLZoxD3wanE6dTiimsN/N0yMkfkIKpW7NYaT59W7V1SnugA+7fuE=">
https://goo.gl/maps/UaDo4zmcEEcWeeFW6</a> are areas at the back of our nearby beach. They were all originally planted, for dune stabilisation purposes, but then allowed to grow wild, with self-sown plants also flourishing in there. Occasionally, Council will
lop branches that are growing out over the path, or they may go in & pull weeds out, but they're basically left alone.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd happily (& have done so!) call them natural=scrub, which would match with this proposal, but does lopping a few branches, or pulling particularly nasty weeds = cultivated?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please don't get me wrong, I think the proposal as a whole is good, there's just a few words I have a slight problem with (shrubbery being one of them!), but as mentioned above ^, I think =scrub, =shrub & =shrubs should be fine.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Graeme</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>Tagging mailing list</span><br>
<span>Tagging@openstreetmap.org</span><br>
<span>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>