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<p><font face="Verdana">The arguments of Greg and Mateusz are very
valid.</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">There are several reasons we should not
support making a specific religious oriented subkey or semantics
to improve the correct use of the key:denomination:</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">1 denomination is a general term, very
suitable to describe the diversity amongst different churches,
faiths or whatever you call them... applicable in all religions.<br>
2 neutrality in OSM, both to avoid expression or domination of
one religion to another, vandalism. All denominations in one key
forces a mapper to treat them all equally. The introduction of a
subkey semantically named "catholic", might express a certain
preference or even claim of a certain denomination on the
semantic name. Catholic is used by different churches within
Christianity and in different context, well described and
summarized in <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholicity">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholicity</a><br>
3 high diversity and complexity: turning already biased
denomination values into subkeys does not improve simplicity or
ease of use and interpretation, accuracy. In the contrary, it
makes it more complex. If we would follow this data scheme one
would have and see the creation of denomination subkeys, as much
diverse and lengthy as the list on our wiki <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:denomination">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:denomination</a><br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">I suggest to improve our wiki on the page.
The situation and need you describe, particularly for
Catholics, is of course existing. The introduction of
"Catholic" as a valid value in my perception justified and
introduced for this particular case, with the advise in the wiki
of being more specific by using one of the other denomination,
more specific and less biased values. <br>
If we want to improve accuracy, remain with a simple and neutral
tagging solution, improve the definition of catholic on the wiki
page value table. In the process of doing so add more context
and explain why it was introduced. Not as to refer to
roman_catholic church in general or other catholic
denominations, but to cater for the diversity within, being it
as different opinions on communion, adherence to the bishop of
Rome, or being Catholic and reformed (Anglicans and Lutherians
call themselves also Catholics, within a different context). <br>
Mappers should be able to determine and use the denomination
values within the correct context as intended on our wiki, no
matter what their own religion or denomination is. We can't
expect every mapper, to be an expert in the matter. In complex
and biased situations like Catholicism, the same key provides a
value to express this as well as the values to be more accurate
and specific. An example for other tagging schemes I would say
rather then a shortcoming which needs to be resolved.</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">Greetings,</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">Bert Araali<br>
</font></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/08/2021 00:55, Greg Troxel wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:rmi35ricmgg.fsf@s1.lexort.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Guy Godfroy <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:guy.godfroy@gugod.fr"><guy.godfroy@gugod.fr></a> writes:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Anyway I still disagree. On a semantic point of view, being catholic and
following the roman, greek, armenian or byzantine rite are totally
unrelated. Honestly, I think having one single denomination=catholic
even without another key would be more correct than the present situation.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Do you have a reference to scholarly work in comparative religion that
supports the view that the there is a Catholic denomination which has
sub-denominations within it? This does not seem like parallel structure
to the many denomimations that consider themselves Protestant.
Also, it seems that Catholic is (in the outside-of-OSM world) considered
an abbrevation/synonum for Roman Catholic, and I would not have thought
it reasonable to refer to members of a Greek Orthodox church as
Catholics. And, it seems that there is one denomination "Eastern
Orthodox" with 7 national churches, and another "Coptic Orthodox".
I'm not an expert in this, but I have a general reaction that OSM
tagging should be informed by consensus nomenclature of professional
scholarship of the things being tagged.
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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