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<p class="MsoNormal">I think a tag like tunnel=siphon would be useful for inverted siphons. Siphon are distinct from culverts and flooded tunnel, which are currently the only defined values of tunnel=* for waterways.
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<p class="MsoNormal">Would it be worth making a proposal for tunnel=siphon?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">> Do you have real example of working siphon please?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Inverted siphon: <a href="https://basemaps.linz.govt.nz/#@-43.6544667,171.5589171,z16.5592">
https://basemaps.linz.govt.nz/#@-43.6544667,171.5589171,z16.5592</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Non-inverted siphon: I understand correctly, they would always be tagged as a pipeline.
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<p class="MsoNormal">Here’s a temporarily setup one: <a href="https://youtu.be/ZUsTT_RUEdQ?t=299">
https://youtu.be/ZUsTT_RUEdQ?t=299</a> Watch from 4:59 to 6:15</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Kyle</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0cm"><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:voschix@gmail.com">Volker Schmidt</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, 15 September 2021 04:26<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tag discussion, strategy and related tools</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Tagging] Question about waterway=pressurized</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Here in the Po Valley we have hundreds (or mor) of inverted siphons. They do not need and, to my knowlege, do not have pumps. Many or max be most of them are not (yet) correctly tagged in OSM. This most likely due to the fact that waterway
data are imports and it looks as if the original did not distinguish between waterway junctions and underpasses.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am not aware of any example of an uninverted siphon.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, 14 Sep 2021, 17:42 François Lacombe, <<a href="mailto:fl.infosreseaux@gmail.com">fl.infosreseaux@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Volker<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">From my understanding, both siphon and inverted-siphon are pressurised.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Siphon uses suction to pull water downstream which implies a positive pressure in its middle, without air.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This is an interesting concept we could classify with additional tags dedicated to siphons.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Some pumps use this principle to raise level of a liquid (see pump_mechanism=siphon
<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:pump_mechanism" target="_blank">
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:pump_mechanism</a>)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Do you have real example of working siphon please?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I only seen inverted siphons (mainly for sewage under roads or rivers) in the past.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This is the bottom of an inverted siphon (maybe 3m in diameter) to make water cross a valley
<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/405871631" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/405871631</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">All the best<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">François<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Le mar. 14 sept. 2021 à 17:12, Volker Schmidt <<a href="mailto:voschix@gmail.com" target="_blank">voschix@gmail.com</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Question to François: is an inverted-siphon (botte sifone, pont-siphon) piece of waterway to be mapped as pressurised? <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, 14 Sep 2021, 16:18 François Lacombe, <<a href="mailto:fl.infosreseaux@gmail.com" target="_blank">fl.infosreseaux@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Kyle,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Le mar. 14 sept. 2021 à 03:24, Kyle Hensel <<a href="mailto:K.y.l.e@outlook.co.nz" target="_blank">K.y.l.e@outlook.co.nz</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> Is there are reason why waterway=pressurized is used instead of waterway=river/stream/canal/drain and pressurized=yes?</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, waterways are defined according to their permanent flowing regime. Some are free flowing, others are pipe flowing.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">A given waterway can't be both as it requires a special prerequisites to handle pressurised water.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Waterways#Artificial_waterways:_pressurised_vs_Open-flow_Waterways" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Waterways#Artificial_waterways:_pressurised_vs_Open-flow_Waterways</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This table gives all values according to their regime<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:waterway#Values" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:waterway#Values</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">River, streams, canals and drains are defined as free flowing waterways, so it wasn't consistent to propose pressurised=yes for them.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If a river goes punctually in a permanent pressurised culvert, waterway=pressurised + tunnel=culvert sounds the most appropriate possibility.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">By the way, a river relation can obviously involve sections with different regimes.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In a perfect world we would have cleared waterway=* from all other values than flowing regime (move waterway=pier or waterway=fuel to man_made or amenity).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Never mind, I go back sleeping :)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">All the best<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">François<o:p></o:p></p>
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