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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">It was mostly “for info” – so I’m glad you were able to use it to help improve the documentation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">(Note: I particularly enjoy the last image here showing a K-frame:
<a href="https://www.cyclesheffield.org.uk/2017/01/04/barriers-on-cycle-paths/">https://www.cyclesheffield.org.uk/2017/01/04/barriers-on-cycle-paths/</a> which shows how councils in the UK think sometimes…)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I don’t think any of “A-frame” / “K-frame”, “squeeze”, or “tilted” are particularly recognisable based on their value alone. For me, it’s the example image that clearly identifies this type of barrier.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I suppose one benefit to “tilted” is that it can be used to encompass both “a-frame” and “k-frame” barriers. Whilst the benefit to A-frame (or K-frame) is that it is the (UK’s) industry used name
– so we’re not just inventing our own value.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <tagging@openstreetmap.org>
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<b>Sent:</b> 19 October 2021 07:23<br>
<b>To:</b> Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <tagging@openstreetmap.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Mateusz Konieczny <matkoniecz@tutanota.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tagging] Adjust proposal: cycle_barrier=squeeze to cycle_barrier=tilted<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Do you think that cycle_barrier=a_frame or cycle_barrier=a-frame<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">would be clearly better than cycle_barrier=tilted?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(I have no idea how recognizable this name would be)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Note that its variant is called K-barrier:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.cycling-embassy.org.uk/dictionary/access-barrier" target="_blank">https://www.cycling-embassy.org.uk/dictionary/access-barrier</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.kbarriers.co.uk/barrier-type/" target="_blank">http://www.kbarriers.co.uk/barrier-type/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Or are you mentioning to help improve documentation?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(thanks for that! I added it to<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:cycle_barrier&diff=2210088&oldid=2209729">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:cycle_barrier&diff=2210088&oldid=2209729</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Oct 19, 2021, 00:13 by <a href="mailto:nathancase@outlook.com">
nathancase@outlook.com</a>:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#212121">I believe the "official" name for these (at least in the UK) is an "A-frame" barrier. The name deriving from the resemblance to the capital case letter A. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#212121">E.g. <a href="http://www.kbarriers.co.uk/a-frame-barrier/" target="_blank">
http://www.kbarriers.co.uk/a-frame-barrier/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#212121">I think they're actually designed to prevent motor cycle access and their use is now discouraged on cycle routes e.g., <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#212121"><a href="https://www.cycling-embassy.org.uk/dictionary/access-barrier" target="_blank">https://www.cycling-embassy.org.uk/dictionary/access-barrier</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#212121">(more problematically, they can also present an access problem for wheelchair users which is worse than for cyclists who can normally just dismount).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#212121">Perhaps cycle_barrier=a_f</span><span class="size"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">rame would be better? But then again, it seems it is often not technically a cycle barrier,
it's a motor cycle barrier...</span></span><span style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 18 October 2021, 20:26<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>To:</b> Tag discussion, strategy and related tools<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Cc:</b> Mateusz Konieczny<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Subject:</b> [Tagging] Adjust proposal: cycle_barrier=squeeze to cycle_barrier=tilted<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycle_barrier" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycle_barrier</a> proposal was recently approved<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">One of tagged features is barrier like <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Barrier2.jpg" target="_blank">
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Barrier2.jpg</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">tagged as cycle_barrier=single<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Another is following type of barrier, popular in UK:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Cycle_barrier_squeeze_image.jpg" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Cycle_barrier_squeeze_image.jpg</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Proposal had cycle_barrier=squeeze for it.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Unfortunately it appears to be a poor tag name and likely confusing.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">- cycle_barrier=squeeze may be wider than narrow cycle_barrier=single<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">- very narrow cycle_barrier=single requiring squeezing is supposed to be<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">still tagged cycle_barrier=single<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">- defining feature of cycle_barrier=squeeze is that it is tilted, becoming<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">narrower as height increases<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Overall this tag name appears to be confusing, with<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">cycle_barrier=tilted as seemingly better tag name.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">So far it was used 48 times, so it is feasible to change this<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">without bad side effects unlike with some poorly designed<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">established tagging<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It was discussed in<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Advanced_cycle_barrier_tagging#single_vs_squeeze" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Advanced_cycle_barrier_tagging#single_vs_squeeze</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">proposal author commented:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">"Maybe just start a discussion on the Tagging Mailing List and if<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">there are no vetos, just document the change on the Wiki pages?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">We also could check if there are some newer uses of "squeeze"<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(mapped since this proposal was approved) and inform the mappers<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">about the change/change the usage there..."<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">What you think about such patch for this proposal?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Is anyone opposed?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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