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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoListParagraph>Yes, they are all healthcare facilities that treat patients, & some of them have in-patient facilities, but none of them are places that you can go to in search of emergency medical treatment<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>That’s not an issue because amenity=hospital does in no way imply that any type of emergency services are provided.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>If a hospital does provide emergency services, it should also have the tag emergency=yes, and there should be one or more node on the building outline tagged with entrance=yes/main/secondary/* (as appropriate) and emergency=emergency_ward_entrance and emergency_ward_entrance=walk-in/rescue_service/all.<br><br>Data consumers should direct people to such emergency_ward_entrance=walk-in/all nodes belonging to an amenity=hospital or amenity=clinic with emergency=yes when looking for emergency services.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>There may be an issue with rendering if the current rendering gives the impression that places that don’t match that pattern provide emergency services.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>There is also significant use of healthcare:speciality=emergency which should probably generally be co-tagged with emergency=yes on amenity=hospital/clinic/doctors<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>It might also be worthwhile to add some global </span>MapRoulette tasks:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=a><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Any amenity=hospital/clinic/doctors that does not have an explicit emergency=yes/no tag should be checked and explicitly set the tag<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Any emergency=emergency_ward_entrance which isn’t tagged on a node of a building=* should be checked (I’ve seen it wrongly tagged on buldings themselves)<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Any building=* + amenity=hospital/clinic/doctors with emergency=yes that does not have an entrance=* + emergency=emergency_ward_entrance node on it’s outline should be checked to add that<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Thorsten<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> Graeme Fitzpatrick <graemefitz1@gmail.com> <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 25 October 2021 16:57<br><b>To:</b> Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <tagging@openstreetmap.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tagging] Clinic that does admit inpatients<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sun, 24 Oct 2021 at 09:16, Sebastian Gürtler <<a href="mailto:sebastian.guertler@gmx.de">sebastian.guertler@gmx.de</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><p>Short answer before (after a lot of reading...): According to the wiki and the meaning of the english word "clinic": A "clinic" that admits inpatients is an "amenity=hospital; healthcare=hospital" ...<o:p></o:p></p><p>Additionally there is the term "Tagesklinik", quite similar to English "day hospital" according to wikipedia, an institution which offers a typically 5/7 days continuous treatment but without staying there at night (e.g. psychiatric or psychosomatic treatment). In Germany it is formally a special form of inpatient treatment "teilstationäre Behandlung" with the legal status of normal inpatient treatment "vollstationäre Behandlung" for employed patients ...<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>But one problem remains: what about the day hospitals. In the original English wiki page there is no mention of day hospitals but in the german "translation" it's written that "amenity=clinic" includes outpatient institutions AND day hospitals (which are in Germany formally inpatient institutions). The current tagging makes no differences between an "clinic" (german: "Ambulanz") and "day hospital" (german: "Tagesklinik") ... <o:p></o:p></p><p>I looked at the tagging practice in Germany: Of 284 Objects with "Tagesklinik" in the name there were 103 with amenity=clinic and 25 with amenity=hospital; 88 with healthcare=clinic 14 with healthcare=hospital. Other taggings: health_facility=hospital/clinic. Of 78 Objects with a given speciality there are 52 of the psychiatric area, which are clearly "teilstationär" - closer to inpatient than to outpatient treatment, as a day hospital, not a "clinic".<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal>I raised concerns about the overriding use of "hospital" some time ago, after looking at them & finding things like normal medical centres (including 1 dentist's office!), ambulance stations & even a vet all mapped as hospitals!<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Yes, these are all clearly errors, but we also then have dental hospitals, day-surgery centres, psychiatric hospitals & such places as drug & alcohol addiction clinics all tagged as hospitals as well.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Yes, they are all healthcare facilities that treat patients, & some of them have in-patient facilities, but none of them are places that you can go to in search of emergency medical treatment.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Is a (possibly?) simple answer to this changing the rendering?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>At the moment, all hospitals render with the white cross on a red circle background, &, in a number of cases, people have tagged the Emergency / Casualty Ward as another hospital, purely so that it will render.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>How about changing it so that "hospital" renders as a white H on a blue square background (similar to, but also different to, the helipad symbol of a white H on a blue circle); & then either using the existing white cross on red (or possibly even changing it to the internationally recognised white on green first aid symbol?) for Emergency?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Would that work?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>(& yes, I know we're talking about ~200000 existing tags!)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Graeme<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>