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    <p>*sigh*<br>
    </p>
    <p>If anyone wants to follow the changeset discussion, having myself
      insulted for a hobby that I have enjoyed at some point in time,
      feel free.</p>
    <p>Kai<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03.11.2021 19:57, Kai Michael Poppe
      - OSM wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:b49bacac-13a7-5dac-c7c6-5b0a8212f6ae@poppe.dev">
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      <p>Hi,</p>
      <p>Well "the wiki is wrong" is quite a bold statement when every
        language page says exactly the same with the English version
        having done so for 6 years.</p>
      <p>Fortunately, I have a very extensive list of the current values
        (*g*) and can confirm: There are 202,203 "valid" old values in
        the database of which "only" 37,615 values use the http-notation
        (18,6%). I would dispute that that's the correct way to tag it.</p>
      <p>Also: The wiki specifically states "The reason for adding the
        key and not the full URI is that the URI might change (and
        already did in the past), but the key will stay the same. For
        the same reason the direct link to the image (e.g. <i><a
            class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
            href="https://images.mapillary.com/.../thumb-2048.jpg"
            moz-do-not-send="true">https://images.mapillary.com/.../thumb-2048.jpg</a></i>)
        should not be tagged." ... We're QUITE LITERALLY seeing that the
        v3 notation of the web-app was <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
          href="https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/"
          moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/</a>...
        and the v4 notation is <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
          href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey="
          moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=</a>...<br>
      </p>
      <p>I'm not in favour of telling a contributor off that has 3k+
        edits, but I really don't want to leave this uncommented.</p>
      <p>Kai<br>
      </p>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03.11.2021 19:37, Peter Neale via
        Tagging wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite"
        cite="mid:858977381.593440.1635964621723@mail.yahoo.com">
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          <div>
            <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">
              <div class="ydp5b9035bpasted-link">
                <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">@Kai and everyone,</div>
                <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
                </div>
                <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">I have hit a
                  problem.  I have corrected a "mapillary=*" tag, where
                  another user had put the whole mapillary URL into the
                  key field.  I removed it and left only the v4 key (16
                  digit numeric key), with a comment that they were in
                  error by putting the whole URL into the key field. 
                  This was the second instance of this with the same
                  user.</div>
                <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
                </div>
                <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">They have now
                  responded to my comment, saying that "the wiki is
                  wrong".</div>
                <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
                </div>
                <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Please see <a
                    href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/113303225"
                    style="color: rgb(25, 106, 212);
                    text-decoration-line: underline;" rel="nofollow"
                    target="_blank" fg_scanned="1"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/113303225</a> and
                  the changeset comments.</div>
                <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
                </div>
                <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Who is correct?  How
                  do we resolve this difference of opinion?</div>
                <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
                </div>
                <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
                </div>
                <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
                </div>
                <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">@Kai.  No problem; I
                  have actually quite enjoyed doing it.  (Only 19 more
                  to go....)</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div class="ydp9365b6d0signature">
                  <div style="font-family: new times, serif; font-size:
                    16px;">
                    <div>Regards,<br>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <div class="ydp63436965signature">
              <div style="font-family:new times, serif;font-size:16px;">
                <div dir="ltr">Peter</div>
                <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">(aka PeterPan99)</div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div id="ydp8b231719yahoo_quoted_6358088148"
          class="ydp8b231719yahoo_quoted">
          <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
            sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
            <div> On Wednesday, 3 November 2021, 18:20:36 GMT, Kai
              Michael Poppe - OSM <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                href="mailto:osm@poppe.dev" moz-do-not-send="true"><osm@poppe.dev></a>
              wrote: </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>
              <div dir="ltr">@CJ,<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr"><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">Thanks for clearing that up for me, I'll
                guess for the "cleanup" of the
                no-longer-existing-old-valid-values I'll have to put two
                Challenges, one with Nodes/Ways and one with any one
                member of a Relation and a different description - as
                MapRoulette only has GeoJSON or an overpass query which
                might not be useful in this case (have to check).<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr"><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">@Peter,<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr"><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">Thanks for clearing the whole Challenge!<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr"><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">Kai<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr"><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">On 03.11.2021 16:29, Cj Malone wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">> On Wed, 2021-11-03 at 14:01 +0100, <a
                  href="mailto:osm@poppe.dev" rel="nofollow"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">osm@poppe.dev</a> wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">>> Q1 - yes. If there's a way/node in
                the Challenge that has no<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">>> mapillary=* tagging then it is
                most likely part of a relation where<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">>> that's the case. When setting up
                the challenge, I was 99% sure I<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">>> added the Relations as their own
                objects and put them into the<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">>> GeoJSON that's the basis for the
                Challenge. It might very well be<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">>> that MR just ignores relations (as
                it might not know how to display<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">>> them properly) and add the objects
                that are part of it (as they are<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">>> in the GeoJSON as well) or I was
                just too stupid to deliver the<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">>> correct data.<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">> GeoJSON doesn't support relations.
                It's kinda a bad format for complex<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">> data structures, like anything that
                comes from OSM.<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">> Another one is, if a way has a node in
                it with a tag on it, it's<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">> actually stored as a point in the way,
                and separately a node on it's<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">> own (with the tags) then the program
                that reads the data has to<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">> correlate the points with nodes by
                finding anything that shares a<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">> location. This then means if you have
                2 nodes with the same location<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">> they can erroneously get merged into
                one point with some software (like<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">> JOSM).<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">> I used to love geojson before running
                into weird issues like this. Now<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">> I try to keep things in .osm as much
                as possible.<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">> Cj<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr"><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">Tagging mailing list<br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr"><a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org"
                  rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr"><a
                  href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging"
                  rel="nofollow" target="_blank" fg_scanned="1"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <br>
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        <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
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