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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 17.11.21 um 10:31 schrieb Peter
Elderson:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Ok, thanks so far, JochenB.
<div>Is this correct: A cycle network of this size (all of
Germany) cannot fit into a single relation, so it is a
hierarchy of network relations. The lowest level contains the
route relations. The junctions where routes happen to cross
each other, are the start/end points of the routes. </div>
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<div>The main purpose of the system is to show cyclists the
designated cycling ways (win-win for traffic control and for
the cyclist) and give them clear destination-based directions.
Which does not have to concern mappers, because mappers can
just map what they see (given knowledge of the German ways)
and it will fit in. Except... how it fits into the network
hierarchy, that is not every mapper's cup of tea. </div>
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<div>I think this German integrated guidepost system is great
for cyclists, once you get the hang of it!</div>
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<div>The purpose of mapping it all in this way is another
thing. </div>
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<div>The purpose of rendering. OpenCycleMap shows routes (route
relations containing ways), I think? To my understanding, the
membership of the route relation is converted to an attribute
of the way, and that is used to determine how it is rendered.
If that is how it's done, the network relations are not used
for rendering. I know OsmAnd doesn't use the network- and
route relations in themselves for rendering (nor for routing).</div>
<div>My understanding is that for rendering, a tag on the way is
easier and quicker than membership of a relation. Correct?</div>
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<div>The purpose of routing then. Again, I am far from an
expert, so I will probably (hopefully) be set straight! My
understanding is that routing is in the end also based on
attributes of the ways. The router chooses ways and assigns
weights to ways, according to the routing profile, and
calculates which way is the best way to continue the trip. I
know that it's a lot more complicated, but the point is, it's
way-based, and tags on the ways are easier to process than
membership of a relation. Correct?</div>
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<div>The purpose of trip planning then. Yes, this may
involve routing, but it is not the same! Node Network planning
is: chaining predetermined routes together to form the
itinerary of the trip. No way-based routing involved there.
The user selects the labeled Nodes corresponding to the
Network Nodes found on junctions; the software chains the
sections together and the result is a list or strip of Node
labels telling the traveler exactly where to go at each
Network Node. </div>
<div>This Node Network system is aimed at guiding the traveler
along ways and routes that a router would not choose. It's not
a how-to-get-there system, it's a what-would-you-like-to-see
system, and that's why it's worth it to do all the mapping
work involved. </div>
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<div>Maybe I am missing important purposes here? <br>
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The system of the german bicycle network aims as well at trip
planning for leisure purposes (they call that "Routenorientierte
Wegweisung"/route orientated guideposting - the route itself is the
aim) as well at "how-to-get-there" (called "Zielorientierte
Wegweisung"/destination orientated guideposting) and try to
integrate that in one system. The infrastructure for the latter is
still quite under construction - fast bicycle ways and so on. <br>
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<div>In this basic_network case, I would like to know why it is
worth doing all this mapping and building such an elaborate
system of relations on top of the ways. </div>
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<p>Concerning the rendering you already got some answers.
waymarkedtrails.org seems to use only the relations and ignores
completely ways - practically I only use waymarkedtrails not the
opencyclemap. The information about the infrastructure of a way is
quite useless on longer distances for you have to check the map
til the end, whether the infrastructure is interrupted. And you
have sometimes a lot of possibilities which route you could take,
sometimes cycle lanes plus allowed use of the footpath. Which of
these would belong to the network, which one you would tag with a
network tag.</p>
<p>The mapping at last is a bit work, but it is far more hazzle to
keep the orientation in the huge collections of ways. And I would
have to check always the changesets and history if I want to check
whether the tagging is up to date, if I don't use a relation where
I could put the information easily. I never felt that it is too
complicated or elaborated. I shrank the relation "Radverkehrsnetz
NRW Bielefeld" from 1152 members of type way to 235 members (still
some ways existent at places where construction sites interrupt
routes).<br>
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<div>A different question: am I correct that this system
specifically targets cycling? <br>
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I personally speak mainly about cycling. But I've been lately in the
alps in Switzerland, there would fit the concept of the
basic_network very well for hiking.<br>
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<div>I know in places, the integrated guidepost system is also
applied to hiking/walking but I think waymarking with e.g. a
green or red "walk here" sign between guideposts is not that
common. </div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Fr gr Peter Elderson</div>
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Greetings, Sebastina<br>
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