<div dir="auto"><div>When my cycle router routes only based on way and node properties it should be able to find technically suitable routes for me. </div><div dir="auto">If, and only if OSM cycle route relations are touristic, my router can propose me routes that have a touristic value and are technically suitable.</div><div dir="auto">If OSM cycle route relations can also be purely technically suitable, I lose this possibility. </div><div dir="auto">My gut feeling is that nearly all cycle route relations in Italy are touristic.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">As I am also a busy end user, I want to invite you all to consider formalising this concept in the wiki. This feature is a great asset of OSM.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 23 Nov 2021, 22:25 Peter Elderson, <<a href="mailto:pelderson@gmail.com">pelderson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Hi Volker,</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Sorry to hear you lost your fight with a car. Different weight classes, I guess. I wish you fast and full recovery!</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div>It's certainly true that most route relations are touristic. However, I try to stick to the fact that these routes a pre-scribed (someone has chained the ways, the user follows the chain of ways). This corresponds to the notion of route relations. It doesn't really matter to OSM for what reason these routes were assembled. The user does not need to route, (s)he just follows it. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div>The other side was: routing. You set A and B and the router creates a route (assembles the chain of ways) according to attributes of the ways. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div>Clear and simple, right? It's also true that in Italy this is still the case. But, also in Italy, destination based guideposting is present, and gaining ground, but in a different guise, resembling touristic routes. I have seen a lot of routes called <place1>-<place2> on the guideposts, and some reference code or route number. This in addition to the touristic routes. I think these do exactly what is meant by JochenB, using standardized guideposts. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div>Am I right?</div><div><br></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Peter Elderson</div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Op di 23 nov. 2021 om 16:41 schreef Volker Schmidt <<a href="mailto:voschix@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">voschix@gmail.com</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>One important thing (at least for me) that is emerging from this discussion, is an underlying, not documented, assumption that I am making, and that i shared most likely by all of my OSM cycling friends in Italy are sharing, but that some people in this discussion are explicitly not sharing:</div><div>bicycle (and hiking ) routes in OSM are touristic routes. They are not geared towards "the safest and fastest connection".</div><div><br></div><div>In a simplified way:</div><div>To get efficiently from A-town to B-town I need a router/navigator that evaluates all possible routes from A to B using the relevant way and node properties, plus DEM data from a third-party source, to find me a near-optimal route. Nice landscapes or cultural heritage aspects do not enter in the equation.</div><div>A cycle (hiking) tourist route is a mix, or a compromise between an efficient route and a nice-landscape and culturally attractive route. It maybe also taking into account the presence of suitable infrastructure like food and lodging. Such a route is typically the product of an organisation that promotes tourism.</div><div><br></div><div>When I (end user of the OSM data) want to go by bike to a shop in an unfamiliar place on the other side of my city I want to do that via
"the safest and fastest connection". <br></div><div>When I plan to travel from Padova, Italy, to Paris, France, on bicycle, I would like the router/navigator to make use of available cycle routes, where suitable. I may accept the occasional crossing of a busy street to get to a city centre, or a steep road to reach a medieval castle.</div><div><br></div><div>According to my experience so far, this approach works reasonably well, because cycle routes are, by tacit convention in the OSM community, cycle-touristic, and all I have to do in the settings of the router/navigator is to deselect the "give preference to cycle routes" option, in order to get
"the safest and fastest connection". <br></div><div><br></div><div>One thing that is essential, if we were to consider a move towards a major change (like using network:type=touristic/... to get at least some data users (designers of routers, navigators) into this discussion.</div><div><br></div><div>A side remark: as far as I am aware, the fact that cycling/hiking routers can give precedence to touristic routes in OSM, is something that car navigation systems do not offer.<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote">Volker</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">(my apologies that I react with delay in this thread - I had a close encounter with a car, 5 ribs and a clavicle cracked, and have only one hand free to type)<br></div></div>
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