<div dir="ltr"><div>Hmmm.</div><div>This tagging has issues, apart from the fact that it proves that my assumption that bicycle routes in OSM are touristic, is not valid in Belgium. :-(<br></div><div>The tag bicycle:type=utility is used here not in line with the (relatively recent) wiki page <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key%3Abicycle%3Atype">Bicycle:type</a></div><div>I don't like the use of network=NCN (nation-wide cycling network) together with cycle-network for the <i>name</i> of the network.</div><div>The key cycle_highway is a very recent new tag, and invites confusion with <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cyclestreet">cyclestreet</a> an <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:bicycle_road">bicycle_road</a></div><div>The ref F7 is repeated in the name.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
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</table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1"></a></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 at 23:35, Peter Elderson <<a href="mailto:pelderson@gmail.com">pelderson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Our Belgian friends are mapping "Cycle highways" ("Fiets-snelwegen") which are being rolled out over the country (of course, they call it a network of cycle_highways). Signposting will still take some time to complete; they use lifecycle tags to make sure only waymarked sections show up and are routed. The routes are chains of ways in route relations, tagged as follows:<div><br><div><table style="border-width:0px;border-style:solid;border-color:inherit;text-indent:0px;border-collapse:collapse;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:18px"><tbody><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid;min-width:9rem"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid">bicycle:type</span></td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid">utility</span></td></tr><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid">cycle_highway</span></td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid">yes</span></td></tr><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid">cycle_network</span></td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid">BE-VLG:cycle_highway</span></td></tr><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid">name</span></td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid">F7 Fietssnelweg Gent - De Pinte</span></td></tr><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid">network</span></td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid">ncn</span></td></tr><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid">operator</span></td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid">Provincie Oost-Vlaanderen;Provincie West-Vlaanderen</span></td></tr><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid">ref</span></td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid">F7</span></td></tr><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid">route</span></td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid">bicycle</span></td></tr><tr style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><td style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid">type</span></td><td style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid"><span style="box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px;border-style:solid">route</span></td></tr></tbody></table><div><br></div><div>The function/purpose is packed in the tag: cycle_highway=yes</div><div>It's used for emphasized rendering and adapted weight for routing. </div><div>They show up on waymarkedtrails, as national routes.</div><div><br></div><div>They have no plans to tag all officially destination-signposted ways as such, nor to create relations for that purpose.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Just a frontline story.</div><div><br></div><div>Single comment: the cycle_network=* tag is not adding much here!</div><div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr">Peter Elderson</div></div><br></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Op zo 28 nov. 2021 om 22:29 schreef Sebastian Gürtler <<a href="mailto:sebastian.guertler@gmx.de" target="_blank">sebastian.guertler@gmx.de</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
Am 28.11.21 um 21:28 schrieb Peter Elderson:<br>
> I am not a fan of the word basic in key or value. It suggests that<br>
> other routes are built on top of these routes, which in general is not<br>
> the case.<br>
I don't know the situation in whole Germany but in the regions I know I<br>
would say in general it is really the case but there are some exceptions<br>
(as far as I know outdated routes, I haven't seen newly designed routes<br>
that don't follow the new scheme).<br>
> Germany may have a business rule for cycling that all cycling routes<br>
> use these basic routes, but in fact they don't. In my experience with<br>
> this kind of rule, it never works out completely, and business rules<br>
> change. If any country can do it, it's Germany, but even then it's a<br>
> localised exception, it works only for cycling in the parts of Germany<br>
> that implemented the integrated guideposts completely and removed<br>
> other types of guideposts.<br>
<br>
That's an important fact that the reality has different networks or at<br>
least one quite well defined network and more or less independent<br>
cycling routes in parallel.<br>
<br>
So a complete generalized tagging wouldn't be able to reflect the actual<br>
situation. Finally I think the most suitable solution for my intention<br>
to map the emerging network may really be describing just that there is<br>
a cycle network with special features, find a name which has a broad<br>
consensus and put it as value for cycle_network=DE:xyz. As stated by<br>
Steve, this could be combined with other network identifiers if<br>
necessary in special cases. This could be discussed in the German forum,<br>
and it wouldn't interfere with tagging in other regions.<br>
<br>
Sebastian<br>
<br>
<br>
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