<div dir="ltr"><div>A ford is a shallow place in a waterway where one can wade or drive
through the water. You will get wet at a ford. It's not really a ford
if the stream is so narrow that you can jump across, or so shallow that
you can walk on stones above the water and your feet barely get wet.
It's also not really a ford if the water is so deep that your feet can't touch the bottom and you have to
swim across.<br><br></div><div>The osm key "ford" seems to be taking on a wider meaning than the English word "ford". ford=stepping_stones describes something that I would not consider a ford. The wiki also documents ford=boat which sounds very strange to me as a native English speaker. A ford is a place where you specifically do not use a boat. If a boat is used, that is called a ferry.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Rather than overloading the ford key, I suggest we create different tags for very narrow/shallow crossing places, and minor ferry boat crossing. Neither of these are really fords. If this is done I think there is much less need for a crossing grade scale.</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 11:51 AM Volker Schmidt <<a href="mailto:voschix@gmail.com">voschix@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Please do not introduce another grade scale - already enough trouble with track grades.</div><div><br></div><div>Some immediate problems:<br></div><div><br></div><div>a river crossing where your body normally gets wet or you have to swim or to take a boat is not a ford.</div><div>(The wiki page key=ford shows as option ford=boat)<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div id="gmail-m_-8689833766932576839DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
<table style="border-top:1px solid rgb(211,212,222)">
<tbody><tr>
<td style="width:55px;padding-top:13px"><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" target="_blank"><img src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif" alt="" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;" width="46" height="29"></a></td>
<td style="width:470px;padding-top:12px;color:rgb(65,66,78);font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;line-height:18px">Virus-free. <a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" style="color:rgb(68,83,234)" target="_blank">www.avast.com</a>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table><a href="#m_-8689833766932576839_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1"></a></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 at 16:03, Timothy Noname <<a href="mailto:hervbeof@gmail.com" target="_blank">hervbeof@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>I think depth and width are too difficult for the average mapper to determine and would be difficult for users to interpret.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I agree that some sort of tag is needed to describe the ease of crossing. </div><div dir="auto">I see fords on OSM footpaths all the time and have no idea if they are a potential obstacle or not. Most of them are very easy to just step over, some require waterproof boots, some the water might come up to your knees. Some are also tidal and the variance is huge.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I would suggest some possible values:</div><div dir="auto">step_over, very_shallow (trainers ok), shallow (waterproof boots needed), wade, swim, difficult_swim</div><div dir="auto"><br></div>Tag name something like <br>foot_crossing_grade</div><div dir="auto">foot_crossing_grade:min</div><div dir="auto">foot_crossing_grade:max<br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 26 Jan 2022, 11:29 Martin Koppenhoefer, <<a href="mailto:dieterdreist@gmail.com" target="_blank">dieterdreist@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Am Mi., 26. Jan. 2022 um 12:21 Uhr schrieb John Sturdy <<a href="mailto:jcg.sturdy@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">jcg.sturdy@gmail.com</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>And if we do want to repeat that (and I agree with Mateusz, that we probably shouldn't) we should probably make it 1--5 rather than 0--4, for consistency.</div><div><br></div><div>How about giving the typical depth of the crossing in metres?</div><div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>"depth" is used together with "ford": <a href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/ford#combinations" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/ford#combinations</a></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,<br></div><div>Martin<br> </div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Tagging mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Tagging mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Tagging mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
</blockquote></div>