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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/02/2022 14:15, s8evq wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:E1nFctg-0003Th-7z@rmmprod05.runbox"><br>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">These old-timers fail to see that a big group of contributors come to OSM with good intentions, and make it a better project, with better, cleaner data structure. They fail to even consider the thoughts and ideas of this large group. I have the feeling these old-timers don't even think it's anywhere remotely possible that these new contributors might possibly have a point.
</pre>
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<p>I'm sorry, but if you're talking about me that's simply untrue -
just take a second to read almost anything I've written in or
about OSM over the years (diary, DWG, switch2osm, etc.). I
suspect that at least half of what I write with a DWG hat on is
essentially "actually, the other person might possibly have a
point"; literally everything I deal with there involves
considering all points of view.<br>
</p>
<p>No-one (not even Simon) has questioned the good intentions of the
contributors here and your "These old-timers fail to see..." above
suggests my "PS" last time was prescient.<br>
</p>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I'm sorry, but that's not a valid argument. There might have been other factors that caused OSM to be more successful than other projects, "despite" the hand-off approach. You just can't make that assertion so easily.</pre>
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That's ignoring the fact I gave a couple of examples in other
domains too. You're welcome to suggest counter-arguments of
projects with a large volunteer base that have significantly
changed how they work, and thrived. The nearest that I can think
of is Apple's iOS development ecosystem changes*, but few
contributors there are in any sense "volunteers".<br>
</p>
<p>More generally, trying to look forward instead of back, how would
you suggest that the tag change process is managed? To take a
general example not related to "diplomatic" tagging: the way that
OSM handles forestry and woodland is a bit of a mess - how would
you propose to fix that problem, not just at the OSM wiki level,
but beyond?:</p>
<ul>
<li>how possible tags are presented to users in editors?</li>
<li>how to explain to mappers who may not always use editor
presets that the new tags are a good idea?</li>
<li>how to manage existing OSM data, especially OSM data that
might not cleanly fit new tagging criteria?<br>
</li>
<li>how to explain to data consumers what has changed, and how -
and how to help them make the changes that they need to to their
code?</li>
</ul>
<p>It's not impossible to do the above when necessary - ways tagged
as "highway=ford" are probably the canonical example, but there
are others.<br>
</p>
<p>Best Regards,</p>
<p>Andy</p>
<p>* such as e.g.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://devblogs.microsoft.com/xamarin/uiwebview-deprecation-xamarin-forms/">https://devblogs.microsoft.com/xamarin/uiwebview-deprecation-xamarin-forms/</a><br>
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