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<p>Hi Graeme,</p>
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<li><span style="color: #0000ff;">I mentioned during a similar conversation "last" (?) year, that possibly the Proposal & Voting system has passed its Use-By?</span></li>
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<div><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">-></span> </span>I rather would improve the voting process by moving it to another platform where the debate can be held far more efficiently, a place where mappers, editor maintainers and data users come together, promote it among all existing mappers as the place where we as a community can take decisions that matter.</div>
<div>If on the other hand it stays as it is, a space where supposedly a bunch of friends can have a chat with no real consequence in the real world, then you are right and we can just let it be.</div>
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<li><span style="color: #0000ff;">It may be easier, & much less stressful!, to just come up with a Draft Concept about "<strong><em>*This*</em></strong>", put a message out asking for comments / suggestions, make amendments then announce that "<strong><em>*This*</em></strong>" is now a thing & leave it up to mappers to use or not, depending on whether they think it's any good?</span></li>
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<div><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">-> Isn't this the way we actually do it, only that nobody speaks it out that way? So, yes, it would be more honest. Somebody comes up with something and leaves it up to the rest to do it this way or another. It is impossible to achieve significant improvements of big issues we have already with this kind of process.</span></span></div>
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<div>Marcos</div>
<p>Am 04.02.2022 01:39, schrieb Graeme Fitzpatrick:</p>
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<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 at 23:14, Andy Townsend <<a href="mailto:ajt1047@gmail.com">ajt1047@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<p>How people map things and which tags they use is handled by a general community consensus and a bit of common sense on all sides. Over the years an aversion to deprecation has grown up due to the surprises that it can cause for people who work with OSM data - not just editor developers, but data consumers of all stripes. There are times where deprecation makes sense (e.g. "highway=ford" on ways doesn't let you say what sort of highway it is, beyond being a ford) but many times when it does not. If a new form of tagging makes sense mappers (guided by the editors that they use) will adopt it and as it appears in the OSM database, data consumers will support it.</p>
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<div>I mentioned during a similar conversation "last" (?) year, that possibly the Proposal & Voting system has passed its Use-By?</div>
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<div>It may be easier, & much less stressful!, to just come up with a Draft Concept about "<strong><em>*This*</em></strong>", put a message out asking for comments / suggestions, make amendments then announce that "<strong><em>*This*</em></strong>" is now a thing & leave it up to mappers to use or not, depending on whether they think it's any good?</div>
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<p>You say that 33 people voted in favour of this "deprecation" (and there are around 660 people who will see this message directly via this mailing list), but those are tiny "even less than a rounding error" numbers compared to <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats#Contributor_statistics_reports" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats#Contributor_statistics_reports</a> .</p>
<p>It's important that we discuss how we tag things as a project, and the tagging mailing list and the wiki both form part of that. What we don't currently have (at API, board or working group level) is a way of enforcing the views of 33 people over the 300k (active contributors last year). </p>
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<div>Interesting figures, thanks Andy!</div>
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<div>So 0.2% of mappers are on the Tagging list, & I don't think I've ever seen 10% = 66 of them actually vote? (The recent vote on reservoirs had 54 votes (~8%) & that was a massive response!). Most votes seem to be around the 20 mark so 3% of 0.2% are making "decisions" that "decide / direct" all of OSM - scary!</div>
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<div>I know there are other communication channels: Slack, you mentioned Telegraph, I've seen mention of Discord & also Discourse (which is apparently going to become the official channel?) & which was going to be live "next week" - in October last year ...</div>
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<div>Do you have any idea of their usage? Is the Tagging list, despite its lack of use, still actually the best option for reaching the most people?</div>
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<div>Thanks
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<div>Graeme</div>
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<div class="pre" style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family: monospace">_______________________________________________<br /> Tagging mailing list<br /> <a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br /> <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a></div>
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