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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 11.04.22 um 10:38 schrieb Mateusz
Konieczny via Tagging:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:N-MlXiv--3-2@tutanota.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div>L1b is missing "and cycling on the left <br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">(on <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Cycle_lanes_both_right.svg"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Cycle_lanes_both_right.svg</a>
image) <br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">carriageway lane is forbidden, while cycling on
the right carriageway lane is not"<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">info.<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">It matters in case where lane is not automatically
utterly banning cycling on carriageway.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">bicycle=use_sidepath is for something different
AND mapping bicycle lane as separate<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">way is wrong.<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I agree. I have to admit that I have never seen this
constellation in real life so far (mostly riding in the last years
in the surrounding 70 km of Bielefeld). <br>
</p>
<p>The example in the wiki
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Neuss_Stephanstr_dsc01113.jpg">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Neuss_Stephanstr_dsc01113.jpg</a>
has some features of a separate way, which would justify a
separate mapping in my opinion. (Commentary there: "Note: The
Cycle Lane is part of the highway but somehow separated by rubber
elements. In Germa[n]y, some kind of separation is mandatory as
long [a]s the speed limit is above 30 km/h.") </p>
<p>Concerning this special case: <br>
</p>
<p>I looked up the street on the picture - currently it is tagged as
bicycle=use_sidepath foot=use_sidepath ( :-| ) and the cycle lanes
together with the footway tagged wrongly with segregated=no (this
tag unchanged since 2010, maybe the segregation is newer...). 2013
someone deleted a "cycleway=track", 2 years ago someone added the
lights...</p>
<p>In this example it would be sensible to keep the own way because
it separates completely from the carriageway a few 100 m farther
away. I wouldn't say that in this case this is wrong. Otherwise
you would have to lead the cycleway onto the street, create a
connection from the street to the separating cycleway the and lead
the way back from the street again. That describes the situation
worse than the actual mapping. (carriageway:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/775056139">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/775056139</a> cycleway/footway:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/43112473">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/43112473</a>). (I put a note on the
map that it may be discussed and fixed by the local mappers).</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:N-MlXiv--3-2@tutanota.com">
<div>Apr 11, 2022, 00:50 by <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sebastian.guertler@gmx.de">sebastian.guertler@gmx.de</a>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid
#93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;">
<p>It seems to me that you describe case L1b in the wiki: <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle#Cycle_lanes_in_bidirectional_motor_car_roads"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" rel="noopener noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle#Cycle_lanes_in_bidirectional_motor_car_roads</a><br>
</p>
<p>I think there is no reason to use another tagging as
described there, (cycleway:right=lane
cycleway:right:oneway=no, without the "bicycle:oneway=yes").<br>
</p>
<p>bicycle:oneway=yes tells a router that this way is only
viable for bicycles in the direction of that way, but on the
main carriageway they are completely banned, and finally the
tag cycleway:right:oneway=no is conflicting.<br>
</p>
<p>It isn't clear to me, what you would want to say with the
"bicycle:oneway=yes". Do you mean each single lane? But this
isn't even for the other vehicles the use of the tag. For cars
it is the normal situation that if there are two lanes and it
isn't oneway, that you use each lane just in one direction,
exceptions only in overtaking.<br>
</p>
<p>To state that the use of the tracks is compulsory you could
at the moment use bicycle=use_sidepath and give the track
additional ways with highway=cycleway. (See <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:bicycle%3Duse_sidepath"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" rel="noopener noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:bicycle%3Duse_sidepath</a>).<br>
</p>
<p>Greetings, Sebastian<br>
</p>
<div class="">Am 10.04.22 um 17:25 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via
Tagging:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>both cases may occur (and would be tagged with an
independent property)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Apr 10, 2022, 17:17 by <a
href="mailto:voschix@gmail.com"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" rel="noopener noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">voschix@gmail.com</a>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8;
padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"
class="tutanota_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Is the use of the cycle lane mandatory for bicycles
in both directions? Or can cyclist also ride in the
allowed direction on the carriageway?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">On Sun, 10 Apr 2022 at 16:44,
Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer"
href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div dir="auto">There could be a case where:<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">- one side of road has traffic lane
where cars can travel but bicycles are banned<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">- another side of road has cycleway
lanes allowing travel in both directions<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">It can be mapped as<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">highway=*<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">cycleway:right=lane<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">but it is not representing full info
and is missing substantial part of the situation.<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Can it be mapped as<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">highway=*<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">cycleway:right=lane<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">cycleway:right:oneway=no<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">bicycle:oneway=yes<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">?<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I dislike this tagging as it makes
necessary to check even more tags to answer<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">simple "can bicycles travel in this
direction" but I have no idea how to tag it better.<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Is there some other way to represent
this?<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">(it is partial repeat of <br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
rel="noopener noreferrer"
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2022-March/thread.html#64148"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2022-March/thread.html#64148</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">but it was not answered clearly.<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I am asking as I just discovered that
need to decide on that to implement<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
rel="noopener noreferrer"
href="https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/issues/3544"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/issues/3544</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">It appears to be not described at <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" rel="noopener
noreferrer"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:oneway"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:oneway</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">or <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
rel="noopener noreferrer"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">)<br>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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