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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/10/22 04:54, Anne-Karoline Distel
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:622ee880-90dd-4e8b-93cb-1abdfa4a9641@web.de">
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<p>Hello all,</p>
<p>thanks for all your replies and input. It is however a little
frustrating indeed that all this only happens after the
discussion period - which is not the first time with my
proposals. I think rather than voting against, you should
abstain from the vote, if you're only coming out with your
opinion now, because it was announced here and on the weeklyOSM.<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>You are not the only one to have this occur. Many of us, me
included have the same thing.</p>
<p>Typical reasons for me are ... 'too busy' .. 'I'll get to that
later' etc Apologizes. At least most of yours look to be on the
tagging list? <br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:622ee880-90dd-4e8b-93cb-1abdfa4a9641@web.de">
<p> </p>
<p>As so many things, yes, the <font face="Courier New, Courier,
monospace">settlement</font> and <font face="Courier New,
Courier, monospace">site_type</font> group of tags is a mess.
I tried to tidy up the <font face="Courier New, Courier,
monospace">settlement</font> and related tags before I started
my proposal, though. And yes, we do have two different uses for
<font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">settlement_type</font>,
as I have laid out <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:settlement_type">on
the page</a>. I would propose that where it is not used in an
archaeological sense, that the few cases (related to the
earthquake in Haiti maybe?) be changed to <font face="Courier
New, Courier, monospace">settlement:origin=planned/
spontaneous/ unspecified</font> or something like that.</p>
<p>I chose <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">settlement_type</font>
as a parallel use to <font face="Courier New, Courier,
monospace">fortification_type</font> which was established
long before I started mapping heritage in Ireland afaik, so I
was only trying my best to follow an established pattern.</p>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>'type' has been used all over the place. That does not make it a
'good' word to use. As you have seen it leads to the tag being
used for things other than intended. <br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:622ee880-90dd-4e8b-93cb-1abdfa4a9641@web.de">
<p>The mess with <font face="Courier New, Courier, monospace">defensive_settlement=crannog</font>
is my fault - I had created a preset for JOSM and forgotten to
adapt it after retracting that proposal. I've cleaned up that
mess now. I meant to wait until this proposal was approved, in
case it got rejected.<br>
</p>
<p>If anyone wants to start a proposal for <font face="Courier
New, Courier, monospace">site_type</font>, please be my guest.</p>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Not I. However I would think instead of <font face="Courier New,
Courier, monospace">site_type=*</font> the key should be
archaeological_site=* ?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I note that settlements are already on the values for the key
historic, e.g farm, manor, monastery, castle ... all places where
people lived. So historic=crannog would 'work'?</p>
<p>If people say they are archaeological sites then why not the
above farm, manor, monastery, castle etc???<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:622ee880-90dd-4e8b-93cb-1abdfa4a9641@web.de">
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Anne<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Good luck. May need a strong drink. <br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:622ee880-90dd-4e8b-93cb-1abdfa4a9641@web.de">
<p> </p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07/10/2022 13:07,
martianfreeloader wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:966ac4c8-79a1-b83e-5f3d-0464d805b75a@posteo.net">Being
practical: Just use the settlement_type=crannog tag. <br>
I'm totally fine this. <br>
<br>
Being principal would be to approve the settlement_type=crannog.
<br>
I'm not fine with this for the reasons laid out. <br>
<br>
<br>
On 07/10/2022 13:46, Peter Elderson wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">I am one of those who didn't bother to
look what it's about. <br>
I share the wish to tag crannogs as important historical
structures still existing today. <br>
I share the criticism that _type does not mean anything. At
the same time I don't care if it is there or not; settlement=*
also does not say what kind of categorisation is used for the
values. But the settlement key ius already in (scarce) use for
something else, with values yes and no. <br>
<br>
As for implicit approval of the higher tags, fine with me!
They are in actual use in a scheme, and for me that is good
enough. If anyone would start a separate vote for that, fine.
If the current vote is postponed till after, fine, it is the
royal way I think, but I think it is not necessary. I think we
can be practical about this, not principal. It's just not big
enough. <br>
<br>
Peter Elderson <br>
<br>
<br>
Op vr 7 okt. 2022 om 13:10 schreef Andy Townsend <<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:ajt1047@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">ajt1047@gmail.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:ajt1047@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><mailto:ajt1047@gmail.com></a>>:
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 07/10/2022 11:27, Marc_marc wrote: <br>
> Hello, <br>
> <br>
> Le 07.10.22 à 12:11, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit : <br>
>> who cares for "in use" or "approved" <br>
> <br>
> me :) <br>
> <br>
> approved that means that the subject has been
discussed, <br>
> that people have spent time on it, that there has
been <br>
> an opportunity to detect problems, to propose
improvements <br>
> it's quite different from an "in use", because a guy
invented <br>
> <br>
Unfortunately discussion and "voting" by people who have
only the <br>
vaguest idea of what the thing being voted on is adds no
value*. There <br>
is a place on the "B Ark" for them... <br>
<br>
The fact that there was only one comment during the
fortnight of <br>
discussion means that people really don't know (or don't
care) what <br>
these are, and people who do know and care (such as the
proposer) <br>
should <br>
probably "just map these". Whether that's via <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/defensive_settlement=crannog"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/defensive_settlement=crannog</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/defensive_settlement=crannog"
moz-do-not-send="true"><https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/defensive_settlement=crannog></a><br>
(which is slightly ahead in taginfo) or <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/settlement_type=crannog"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/settlement_type=crannog</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/settlement_type=crannog"
moz-do-not-send="true"><https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/settlement_type=crannog></a>
<br>
matters <br>
little; there are few of them in OSM right now, and the
word "crannog" <br>
is characteristic enough, that they can fairly easily be
remapped into <br>
some "better" archaeological scheme at some later stage. <br>
<br>
What matters is getting them mapped, and getting from the
10s currently <br>
in OSM to the 1500 or so that apparently do or did
exist**. <br>
<br>
Best Regards, <br>
<br>
Andy <br>
<br>
* We still don't know what bicycle=designated means <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/use-of-bicycle-designated-vs-bicycle-yes-outside-of-germany/3230"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/use-of-bicycle-designated-vs-bicycle-yes-outside-of-germany/3230</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/use-of-bicycle-designated-vs-bicycle-yes-outside-of-germany/3230"
moz-do-not-send="true"><https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/use-of-bicycle-designated-vs-bicycle-yes-outside-of-germany/3230></a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
** According to wikipedia. I was surprised that there
were apparently <br>
as many as 1200 in Ireland. <br>
<br>
<br>
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<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
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