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<p>The whole proposal is a pragmatic compromise to the fact that we
do not have an usable solution for "grouping" paths within a road
corridor. As we know, relations cannot be used effectively for
this at present (if we are already talking about the "effort" to
tag a sidepath with a single attribute, we don't even have to
start talking about relations).<br>
<br>
The difficulties of solving this in software have already been
reported here. The problem is rather a niche problem, which from
the point of view of most mappers is quite irrelevant, as it is
only a "user/application problem". However, I don't think we
should deliberately waste potential because we don't want to make
concessions to the needs of applications. Yes, of cause, most
applications currently (necessarily) work successfully without
this concept or can adapt processing-intensive solutions (which
fail at edge cases at the latest). A sidepath concept might offer
new possibilities and convenience here with simple instruments.<br>
<br>
So it's a trade-off between "how much effort is it to map" and
"how much easier can it make use of data". Those who don't want to
map it, of course, don't map it, as usual. But those who want to
map (or use) it could use a pre-prepared and discussed solution
instead of always coming up with new taggings for this. Because at
the moment a sprawl of different approaches for the same problem
is developing here again (e.g. "cycleway=sidepath", "street:name",
"side_road"...). That's ok, that's how OSM works. But we can also
guide and discuss such a solution finding process. I don't know if
"is_sidepath" is a good solution for this, so I'm trying to start
a discussion to maybe optimise it or find a better solution.<br>
<br>
By the way: I like the analogy with "dual_carriageway", because I
like to use this tagging very much. As a mapper who also do
(rather basic) data analyses and evaluations, it has opened up
many new possibilities for me.<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 02.12.22 um 15:02 schrieb Mateusz
Konieczny via Tagging:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:NII8Ino--3-9@tutanota.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">"or only with the significant effort of using geometric processing
(which most applications can't perform)"
why doing it manually would be preferable?
Is it repeating mistake of adding pointless work for mappers
because it "causes extra preprocessing for routing software."?
And valuing time of mappers as worth nothing?
(PTv2 asks mappers to do something derivable from highway=bus_stop
location and roads within bus relation, massive amount of work
of mappers wasted to do preprocessing manually
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?oldid=625726">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?oldid=625726</a> )
Why <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/24034881">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/24034881</a>
needs to be preprocessed manually?
The same for <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1111788729">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1111788729</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/118390194">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/118390194</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/233305340">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/233305340</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/119380508">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/119380508</a>
(all examples from the proposal)
Or is it justifiable because it is outright impossible to do reliably
with automatic preprocessing?
(that is the justification for
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:dual_carriageway%3Dyes">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:dual_carriageway%3Dyes</a>
)
If yes, can you give examples where it would be beneficial
and explicitly ask to introduce such tagging solely in
cases where preprocessing is doomed to fail?
If it is second case of preprocessing being impossible -
why do massive duplication and ask to duplicate ref value
AND name value AND highway value?
------------
Also, I think that
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/119380508">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/119380508</a> is clearly a sidewalk
of that road.
2 gru 2022, 13:31 od <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:supaplex@riseup.net">supaplex@riseup.net</a>:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Paths and ways along a road can be mapped separately in OSM, but those separate geometries cannot be identified as part of the road, or only with the significant effort of using geometric processing (which most applications can't perform). However, the information whether a path is attendant to a road or not is important for many use cases and can offer various advantages.
Therefore, a sidepath concept using the tag "is_sidepath" as an additional tag on ways (in particular cycle ways or foot paths) is proposed to indicate whether a way is related/attendant to a road (i.e. adjacent and parallel to a road) or whether it runs independently/isolated without any relationship to a road. Furthermore, an extended set of sub-tags is proposed to allow to explicitly tag important road attributes on the sidepath itself.
> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Key:is_sidepath">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Key:is_sidepath</a>
You can discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page or here.
Best, Alex
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
</pre>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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