<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">I use routing to measure accessibility to schools and health clinics here in west Africa. I have to make sure that my models also work in South Asia. Having the surface tag attributed makes processing infinitely easier because I don’t have to adjust my default values based on country. Across Africa, and south Asia, many secondary, primary, trunk roads are not paved. Knowing which ones are and which ones aren’t is important to me.<div><div><br></div><div> I understand that having tagging like this does not benefit you, but does it hurt you? If it doesn’t hurt you and it may help somebody else is there a problem?<br><div><br><div dir="ltr">Even outside the routing world, surface tags can be used to estimate the amount of noise coming from a roadway. for example, Concrete is way louder than asphalt. Such data could be used to estimate the noise pollution levels.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">This is very analogous to some of the attributes that one can find on schools. Does the school have running water? Does the school have bathrooms? None of these apply in California, but all of them apply elsewhere in the world.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Feb 3, 2023, at 03:25, Brian M. Sperlongano <zelonewolf@gmail.com> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">I see that despite this discussion, TomTom is proceeding with its quixotic quest to get mappers to tag surface tags on motorway, just now in other countries:<div><br></div><div><a href="https://maproulette.org/browse/challenges/37540">https://maproulette.org/browse/challenges/37540</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Would you care to inform the community what it is that you're trying to accomplish here?</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 12:49 PM David Salmon <<a href="mailto:David.Salmon@tomtom.com">David.Salmon@tomtom.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6044669627354315129">
<div lang="EN-US" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class="m_6044669627354315129WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi All,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you for the discussions and pointers. I’ve disabled the challenge for now and will re-evaluate with the team.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Much appreciated,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">David<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Brian M. Sperlongano <<a href="mailto:zelonewolf@gmail.com" target="_blank">zelonewolf@gmail.com</a>> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 27, 2023 4:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Salmon <<a href="mailto:David.Salmon@tomtom.com" target="_blank">David.Salmon@tomtom.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Matthew Whilden <<a href="mailto:matthew.whilden@gmail.com" target="_blank">matthew.whilden@gmail.com</a>>; Eric H. Christensen <<a href="mailto:eric@aehe.us" target="_blank">eric@aehe.us</a>>; Joseph Eisenberg <<a href="mailto:joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com" target="_blank">joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com</a>>; talk-us <<a href="mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk-us@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Talk-us] New MapRoulette Challenge - Add Surface to Highways<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="left" width="100%" style="width:100%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="background:rgb(166,166,166);padding:5.25pt 1.5pt"></td>
<td width="100%" style="width:100%;background:rgb(234,234,234);padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 5.25pt 11.25pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:rgb(33,33,33)">You don't often get email from
<a href="mailto:zelonewolf@gmail.com" target="_blank">zelonewolf@gmail.com</a>. <a href="https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification" target="_blank">
Learn why this is important</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</td>
<td width="75" style="width:56.25pt;background:rgb(234,234,234);padding:5.25pt 3.75pt">
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If all you care about is paved vs unpaved distinctions for routing, you can safely delete the challenge, because all highway=motorway in California are paved.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jan 27, 2023, 3:12 PM David Salmon <<a href="mailto:David.Salmon@tomtom.com" target="_blank">David.Salmon@tomtom.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi All,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you for the questions. I checked with a couple of colleagues and Surface is used in some applications if users want to avoid Unpaved roads during a route.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I don’t sense a consensus yet on the approach of using Paved versus a specific surface value. Would you prefer that I make the challenge Not Discoverable until there’s time to conclude
the discussion?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Alternately, if there’s a topic of higher priority or interest that you’d like to see created as an editing challenge or existing challenge where TomTom could support, I’m open
to suggestions.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">All the best,<br>
David<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Matthew Whilden <<a href="mailto:matthew.whilden@gmail.com" target="_blank">matthew.whilden@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 25, 2023 2:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Eric H. Christensen <<a href="mailto:eric@aehe.us" target="_blank">eric@aehe.us</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Joseph Eisenberg <<a href="mailto:joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com" target="_blank">joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com</a>>; David Salmon <<a href="mailto:David.Salmon@tomtom.com" target="_blank">David.Salmon@tomtom.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk-us@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Talk-us] New MapRoulette Challenge - Add Surface to Highways<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="left" width="100%" style="width:100%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="background:rgb(166,166,166);padding:5.25pt 1.5pt"></td>
<td width="100%" style="width:100%;background:rgb(234,234,234);padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 5.25pt 11.25pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:rgb(33,33,33)">You don't often get email from
<a href="mailto:matthew.whilden@gmail.com" target="_blank">matthew.whilden@gmail.com</a>.
<a href="https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification" target="_blank">Learn why this is important</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</td>
<td width="75" style="width:56.25pt;background:rgb(234,234,234);padding:5.25pt 3.75pt">
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you want to use the data for non-routing questions I'm sure specificity can help. Like, imagine I want to estimate road maintenance costs by latitude or something of that shape.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Matt<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 10:28 AM Eric H. Christensen via Talk-us <<a href="mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk-us@openstreetmap.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">------- Original Message -------<br>
On Wednesday, January 25th, 2023 at 11:35, Joseph Eisenberg <<a href="mailto:joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com" target="_blank">joseph.eisenberg@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
> Why do we need surface=asphalt vs surface=concrete for highway=motorway?<br>
> <br>
> Does this make a significant difference for any users?<br>
> <br>
> I can certainly see the value of adding unpaved surface values for other classes of roads, but all motorways in the USA (and likely worldwide) will be paved<br>
<br>
I can see that being an assumption but unless you verify that to be true you can't just summarily add that kind of data to the set.
<br>
<br>
Does it make a difference? I'm not sure. There are definitely friction coefficient differences between the two surfaces and I'd be willing to bet that one would be more efficient to travel across than the other. Perhaps routing engines could use this information
to provide an even better, more efficient route. Of course, that is just an idea.<br>
<br>
R,<br>
Eric <br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Talk-us mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-us@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.openstreetmap.org%2Flistinfo%2Ftalk-us&data=05%7C01%7CDavid.Salmon%40tomtom.com%7C872b38297c7f40a16f8008db00a9fa93%7C374f80267b544a3ab87d328fa26ec10d%7C0%7C0%7C638104502387667628%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gVMqJeathm4pviL9HoCKbcP7hHbawS4rS2e2n2Ei8HI%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Talk-us mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-us@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.openstreetmap.org%2Flistinfo%2Ftalk-us&data=05%7C01%7CDavid.Salmon%40tomtom.com%7C872b38297c7f40a16f8008db00a9fa93%7C374f80267b544a3ab87d328fa26ec10d%7C0%7C0%7C638104502387667628%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gVMqJeathm4pviL9HoCKbcP7hHbawS4rS2e2n2Ei8HI%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div></blockquote></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Tagging mailing list</span><br><span>Tagging@openstreetmap.org</span><br><span>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</span><br></div></blockquote></div></div></div></body></html>