<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/2/23 22:03, Jez Nicholson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALBgsij9ZC6qWjmzPoF5+QrYV5Q_BNQUTCQZTMEXw29ETsusYA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">The UK has plenty of areas around the coast that
are deliberately not protected by flood defences so they would
soak up the power of an intermittent flood. Are these a similar
thing? They aren't wetlands as they aren't wet all the time.</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>From <a
href="https://theconversation.com/why-a-wetland-might-not-be-wet-103687"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://theconversation.com/why-a-wetland-might-not-be-wet-103687</a>
<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>"Australian wetlands have natural wet-dry cycles, with dry spells
that can last for decades. Dry phases are necessary for the life
cycle of the wetland itself, as well as for many of the plants and
animals that live there."</p>
<p>"Wetlands may stay dry for many decades, while eggs and seeds
wait and rest until the next flood. Some eggs (such as shield
shrimp) are small enough to be dispersed by the wind, or <a
href="https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2427.2007.01901.x">hitch
a ride on waterbirds</a> leaving the area."</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>That sound similar to these 'flood defenses'? <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALBgsij9ZC6qWjmzPoF5+QrYV5Q_BNQUTCQZTMEXw29ETsusYA@mail.gmail.com"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, 11 Feb 2023, 10:52
Warin, <<a href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">61sundowner@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 11/2/23 21:23, Jez Nicholson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">I see what you are saying, but 'dry swamp'
feels slightly odd. Is there something like
'intermittent wetland' that is more appropriate?</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>It is 'slightly odd' ... in that it is not found in
populated parts of the globe. <br>
</p>
<p>OSM tagging is written mostly by people in populated
parts of the globe, so it suits those populated places.
That is no ones fault, we all operate on the knowledge we
have. <br>
</p>
<p>Unfortunately 'dry swamps' exist and do not fit the
definitions used in OSM exiting tags, 'wetlands' are wet..
not 'dry', 'swamps' are 'wet', even 'mud' is wet.. <br>
</p>
<p>OSM existing tags</p>
<p>wetland = "A natural area subject to inundation or with
waterlogged ground"</p>
<p>Not water logged most of the time so does not fit... The
'inundation' is very seldom. <br>
</p>
<p>swamp = "An area of waterlogged forest, with dense
vegetation."</p>
<p>Not water logged most of the time, not a forest, and not
dense vegetation<br>
</p>
<p>mud = "Area covered with mud: water saturated fine
grained soil without significant plant growth"<br>
</p>
<p>Again not water saturated most of the time. <br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, 11 Feb 2023,
10:11 Warin, <<a
href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">61sundowner@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%"> The
‘dry swamp’ has no apparent way to tag it. These
will not be found in Europe, just as you don’t
find deserts there. </p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">They
have occasional water, not seasonal, not yearly
but, say, between 5 to 20 years they have water.
As such they do not satisfy the OSM swamp
definitions at all. </p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">See <a
href="https://theconversation.com/why-a-wetland-might-not-be-wet-103687"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://theconversation.com/why-a-wetland-might-not-be-wet-103687</a>
for more on their characteristics, at least in
Australia. OSM has access to a imagery source in
Australia that maps them, so OSM has a legal
source for them. What is needed is a tag for them,
say, ‘natural=dry_swamp’??? </p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">There
are ~ 4,000 of these ‘natural=mud’ mapped so far
that are in fact ‘dry swamps’. Note that the tag
natural=mud wiki says “This tag should not be
used for areas with intermittent water cover which
are water covered or completely dry most of the
time.” So this tagging is incorrect as they are
dry most of the time… <br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">There
are more in existence but not mapped. </p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">Sample
<a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1143825454"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/</a><a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1143851993" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">1143851993</a></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">Any
thoughts? </p>
<p> </p>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Tagging mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Tagging mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>