<div dir="auto"><div>In this lamentably abandoned proposal it was suggested public_transport:type=replacement</div><div dir="auto"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Differentiation_for_routes_of_public_transport">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Differentiation_for_routes_of_public_transport</a><br><br><br><br>Agustín</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">El vie., 10 de marzo de 2023 9:04 a. m., <<a href="mailto:tagging-request@openstreetmap.org">tagging-request@openstreetmap.org</a>> escribió:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send Tagging mailing list submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:tagging-request@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">tagging-request@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a href="mailto:tagging-owner@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">tagging-owner@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of Tagging digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Rail replacement bus service (hanser)<br>
2. Re: Rail replacement bus service (stevea)<br>
3. Re: Rail replacement bus service (Warin)<br>
4. Re: Rail replacement bus service (Martin Koppenhoefer)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 08:21:44 +0100<br>
From: hanser <<a href="mailto:message@johannesstefan.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">message@johannesstefan.de</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
Subject: [Tagging] Rail replacement bus service<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:e70047c9-185f-53fa-2f44-ee1f522ad6af@johannesstefan.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">e70047c9-185f-53fa-2f44-ee1f522ad6af@johannesstefan.de</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed<br>
<br>
Hello,<br>
<br>
please consider my suggestion which I would like to transfer to an <br>
official proposal after the idea got some feedback from this mailing list.<br>
<br>
Public rail transport normally has a rail replacement bus service[1] for <br>
when the rails are in maintenance or under construction. There exist bus <br>
stops that are designated for that special purpose ? often with a <br>
special sign[2] which indicates this (sometimes additional) function. <br>
Also often there are signs[3] or marks on the floor[4] to direct the <br>
passengers to these stops.<br>
So these stops are a permanent setup and worthy to be mapped in OSM. <br>
Especially because in smaller train stations these signs are often <br>
insufficiently frequent, if present at all ? and OSM could be of great <br>
help in navigating to the stops. For my region, the railway company has <br>
a portal[5] where you can download a map for directions to the <br>
replacement service for a certain train station[6].<br>
<br>
The suggestion is to be able to add the tag<br>
*rail_replacement_service=yes*<br>
to public_transport denoted elements.<br>
<br>
Do you have any thoughts about this? Any help in general would be highly <br>
appreciated, since this is my first osm proposal :)<br>
<br>
Thanks a lot for your consideration<br>
hanser<br>
<br>
<br>
[1] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_replacement_bus_service" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_replacement_bus_service</a><br>
[2] <br>
<a href="https://assets.static-bahn.de/.imaging/focalpoint/752x564/dam/jcr:10873a29-30b7-4c71-812e-079f491cda86/DB175994.jpg" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://assets.static-bahn.de/.imaging/focalpoint/752x564/dam/jcr:10873a29-30b7-4c71-812e-079f491cda86/DB175994.jpg</a> <br>
(german sign with english translation)<br>
[3] <br>
<a href="https://assets.static-bahn.de/.imaging/focalpoint/752x564/dam/jcr:3659762a-5381-4be8-9da3-4cebdf4695c2/DB175857.jpg" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://assets.static-bahn.de/.imaging/focalpoint/752x564/dam/jcr:3659762a-5381-4be8-9da3-4cebdf4695c2/DB175857.jpg</a> <br>
(german sign with english translation)<br>
[4] <br>
<a href="https://assets.static-bahn.de/.imaging/focalpoint/752x564/dam/jcr:74393c33-a00e-428e-a260-e4c93c3b9162/Fu%C3%9Fabdruck_SEV.jpg" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://assets.static-bahn.de/.imaging/focalpoint/752x564/dam/jcr:74393c33-a00e-428e-a260-e4c93c3b9162/Fu%C3%9Fabdruck_SEV.jpg</a> <br>
(german sign with english translation)<br>
[5] <a href="https://regional.bahn.de/regionen/baden-wuerttemberg/fahrplan/sev" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://regional.bahn.de/regionen/baden-wuerttemberg/fahrplan/sev</a> <br>
(german ? link all the way at the bottom)<br>
[6] <a href="https://www.bahnhof.de/downloads/replacement-service-maps/5242.pdf" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.bahnhof.de/downloads/replacement-service-maps/5242.pdf</a> <br>
(example map to the replacement service for Reutlingen)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2023 23:46:06 -0800<br>
From: stevea <<a href="mailto:steveaOSM@softworkers.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">steveaOSM@softworkers.com</a>><br>
To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"<br>
<<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Rail replacement bus service<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:66167D36-FB43-4029-8453-E394D1A14E07@softworkers.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">66167D36-FB43-4029-8453-E394D1A14E07@softworkers.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
A most excellent suggestion, hanser, and at first glance, a well-structured OSM thrust forward for this concept: I am enthusiastic. Please keep up this sort of good communication!<br>
<br>
Just yesterday I left off of our Caltrain wiki [1] the so-called "6-trains" on its Schedule [2] in preparation for what will be called "Blended Service" (future California High Speed Rail shares "commuter rail" tracks upgraded to what in the USA are Class 6 track, 110 MPH / 176 km/hr) known as the "Northern Bookend" in the San Francisco Bay Area's big upgrades to rail over the next decade.<br>
<br>
The reason I left off the "6-trains" from this train wiki table is because these aren't trains. (During weekend construction of new electrification towers, substations, et cetera). Here (California, USA), we don't call these "Ersatz" or "Replacement" service for the trains, we call these "bus bridges."<br>
<br>
With this, OSM will have a way to describe these "acting like train routes but are really bus routes." They do have their own "special purpose" signage, paint-on-pavement (sometimes looks like shoe-prints-in-paint) and other "route navigation aids." I look forward to a well-designed proposal and/or the emergence of sensible tagging strategies after this sort of consultation with the greater community, so, Thanks for bringing this up!<br>
<br>
[1] <a href="https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/California/Railroads/Passenger#Caltrain_/_Peninsula_Corridor_Joint_Powers_Board_(JPBX)" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/California/Railroads/Passenger#Caltrain_/_Peninsula_Corridor_Joint_Powers_Board_(JPBX)</a><br>
[2] <a href="https://www.caltrain.com/routes/l6?active_tab=route_explorer_tab" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.caltrain.com/routes/l6?active_tab=route_explorer_tab</a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 21:31:01 +1100<br>
From: Warin <<a href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">61sundowner@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Rail replacement bus service<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:5f51b31a-1be0-a5a7-e99c-46e9310829c2@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">5f51b31a-1be0-a5a7-e99c-46e9310829c2@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/3/23 18:46, stevea wrote:<br>
> A most excellent suggestion, hanser, and at first glance, a well-structured OSM thrust forward for this concept: I am enthusiastic. Please keep up this sort of good communication!<br>
><br>
> Just yesterday I left off of our Caltrain wiki [1] the so-called "6-trains" on its Schedule [2] in preparation for what will be called "Blended Service" (future California High Speed Rail shares "commuter rail" tracks upgraded to what in the USA are Class 6 track, 110 MPH / 176 km/hr) known as the "Northern Bookend" in the San Francisco Bay Area's big upgrades to rail over the next decade.<br>
><br>
> The reason I left off the "6-trains" from this train wiki table is because these aren't trains. (During weekend construction of new electrification towers, substations, et cetera). Here (California, USA), we don't call these "Ersatz" or "Replacement" service for the trains, we call these "bus bridges."<br>
><br>
> With this, OSM will have a way to describe these "acting like train routes but are really bus routes." They do have their own "special purpose" signage, paint-on-pavement (sometimes looks like shoe-prints-in-paint) and other "route navigation aids." I look forward to a well-designed proposal and/or the emergence of sensible tagging strategies after this sort of consultation with the greater community, so, Thanks for bringing this up!<br>
<br>
<br>
Drives like a bus, uses roads like a bus .. it is a bus. There are a few <br>
permanent ones in my State run by the railways people (usually <br>
contracted to a local firm) and I'd map them as a bus route.<br>
<br>
In Victoria I believe the railways have a few of there own buses with <br>
branding and colours to match!<br>
<br>
Trains no longer run on these 'routes' well not passenger services, get <br>
the occasional freight service but even those are reducing to zero. Did <br>
Beeching have offspring and have they come here?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 12:04:49 +0100<br>
From: Martin Koppenhoefer <<a href="mailto:dieterdreist@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">dieterdreist@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"<br>
<<a href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Rail replacement bus service<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CABPTjTBNzuf0ioDxzyaLkkH0t5a7etqF1z%2Bo0C6LLqex9aOZvA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">CABPTjTBNzuf0ioDxzyaLkkH0t5a7etqF1z+o0C6LLqex9aOZvA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Am Fr., 10. M?rz 2023 um 11:35 Uhr schrieb Warin <<a href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">61sundowner@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
<br>
><br>
> Drives like a bus, uses roads like a bus .. it is a bus. There are a few<br>
> permanent ones in my State run by the railways people (usually<br>
> contracted to a local firm) and I'd map them as a bus route.<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I agree, these just get blocked in the traffic like any other road based<br>
vehicle, not comparable in any way to the railbased routes they are<br>
replacing (usually for construction work, or short term in case of special<br>
events like police action, fire, bomb alerts, etc.), or comparable only<br>
that they have to face the same amount of passengers as the trains and<br>
therefor tend to be overcrowded :)<br>
<br>
I agree with the thread starter that an attribute like<br>
"rail_replacement_service=yes" seems a good way to go, if we map these at<br>
all. From my experience in Berlin and in opposition to what was stated<br>
above, these are not "permanent", but they can last for several years.<br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/attachments/20230310/8ba9f4bb/attachment-0001.htm" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/attachments/20230310/8ba9f4bb/attachment-0001.htm</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Subject: Digest Footer<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Tagging mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
End of Tagging Digest, Vol 162, Issue 5<br>
***************************************<br>
</blockquote></div></div></div>