<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <p>Sorry to dredge this up again, but what seems to have happened
      is:</p>
    <p>Some edits to <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names</a> by 
      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgo_eiu">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgo_eiu</a> were reverted
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Names&type=revision&diff=2368644&oldid=2351644">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Names&type=revision&diff=2368644&oldid=2351644</a>
      and there was discussion on this list at <span class="comment"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2022-August/065130.html">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2022-August/065130.html</a>
        .  Before the discussion went off-topic, there was broad
        agreement with the revert.<br>
      </span></p>
    <p>They then made essentially the same edit again.  In particular
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Names&type=revision&diff=2371288&oldid=2368814">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Names&type=revision&diff=2371288&oldid=2368814</a>
      changes "Avoid Transliteration" (which is the OSM norm) to
      "Transliteration" (which is not).</p>
    <p>It would of course be entirely reasonable to note that when a
      particular language has multiple orthographies that that should to
      be taken into account (see for example the ongoing discussion at
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/multilingual-names-in-bulgaria/98762">https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/multilingual-names-in-bulgaria/98762</a>
      about how names should be handled in Bulgaria).  However, most
      languages only have one form of writing in very wide use, so this
      should at best be a footnote or a bracketed comment on the main
      page.  <br>
    </p>
    <p>A new OSM editor should not be confused by the content of
      something as basic as the "names" page in the OSM wiki. 
      Currently, they probably will be.</p>
    <p>I believe that what needs to happen is essentially a revert of
      the changes at
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Names&type=revision&diff=2371288&oldid=2368814">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Names&type=revision&diff=2371288&oldid=2368814</a>
      , whilst ensuring that the "some countries" paragraph at the end
      covers those rarer cases where transliteration is the norm.</p>
    <p>It'd be great if someone who is invested in the value of the OSM
      wiki would make the relevant edit*, rather than me, who thinks
      that it is (following edits such as this) quite often unhelpful
      and unfortunately sometimes best ignored.  However, I'll do it if
      no one else will.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Best Regards,</p>
    <p>Andy</p>
    <p>(for the avoidance of any doubt, writing in an entirely personal
      capacity)<br>
    </p>
    <p>* like Harry Wood did with this section, after significant
      consultation, back in 2014<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/08/2022 12:44, Clay Smalley
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAHR3E+p9fA4Gd+wYUNrLXyYicsxnatQiE-zk4X+1RNeMcRNmwQ@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="auto">
        <div>Regardless of the topic, personal attacks are not
          necessary. You don't build consensus by publicly shaming other
          contributors.</div>
        <div dir="auto"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">-Clay <br>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 12, 2022, 4:15
              AM bgo_eiu (OSM mailing list email) via Tagging <<a
                href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>>
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px">The topic at
                hand is an update I made to the wiki. Anyone is free to
                discuss this on the Wiki, where this discussion belongs.</div>
              <div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px"><br>
              </div>
              <div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px">
                <div>
                  <div
                    style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px;color:rgb(34,34,34)">--</div>
                  <div><span><a
                        href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/bgo_eiu"
                        rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/bgo_eiu</a></span><br>
                  </div>
                  <div><span><a
                        href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgo_eiu"
                        rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgo_eiu</a></span></div>
                </div>
                <div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px"><br>
                </div>
                <div> Sent with <a href="https://proton.me/"
                    rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">Proton Mail</a> secure email.
                </div>
              </div>
              <div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px"><br>
              </div>
              <div> ------- Original Message -------<br>
                On Thursday, August 11th, 2022 at 5:08 PM, Richard
                Fairhurst <<a href="mailto:richard@systemed.net"
                  target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">richard@systemed.net</a>>
                wrote:<br>
                <br>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div name="messageBodySection">
                    <div dir="auto">bgo_eiu wrote:<br>
                      > I don't think many people have ever agreed
                      with your whining <br>
                      > on here. I notice people complain about your
                      Wiki edits on <br>
                      > Slack regularly.<br>
                      <br>
                      This is not how we conduct ourselves on here.
                      Please desist.</div>
                  </div>
                  <div name="messageSignatureSection"><br>
                    <div>Richard</div>
                    <div dir="auto">sporadic tagging@ list admin</div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                <br>
              </div>
              _______________________________________________<br>
              Tagging mailing list<br>
              <a href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank"
                rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
              <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging"
                rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>