<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    Looks good to me.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 23/01/16 13:19, Nev Wedding wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:8CFBFEC4-5584-41A2-8C09-0AE081E259C0@gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      Done…Here it is   <a moz-do-not-send="true"
        href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5892156" class="">http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5892156</a>
      <div class=""><br class="">
        <div class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">On 23 Jan 2016, at 12:43 PM, Ross <<a
                moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:info@4x4falcon.com"
                class="">info@4x4falcon.com</a>> wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div class="">
              <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8"
                http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
              <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> <br
                  class="">
                <br class="">
                <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 23/01/16 12:26, Nev
                  Wedding wrote:<br class="">
                </div>
                <blockquote
                  cite="mid:14E9F72F-E1D9-4142-9EB3-53675DF6AAE4@gmail.com"
                  type="cite" class="">
                  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                    charset=utf-8" class="">
                  I have followed this process for Kooyong State
                  Conservation Area which has gone well after opening
                  the kms file and have simplified and added all the
                  tags, 
                  <div class="">…but on trying to upload the final
                    boundary I get this ominous message<br class="">
                    “
                    <div class="">You are about to upload data from the
                      layer 'Kooyong.kml'.<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      Sending data from this layer is <b class="">strongly

                        discouraged</b>. If you continue,<br class="">
                      it may require you subsequently have to revert
                      your changes, or force other contributors to.<br
                        class="">
                      <br class="">
                      <div class="">Are you sure you want to continue? </div>
                      <div class="">“</div>
                      <div class=""><br class="">
                      </div>
                      <div class="">I assume the warning is to dissuade
                        mappers from careless import of large
                        uncorrected datasets.?</div>
                      <div class=""><br class="">
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                <br class="">
                Yes.<br class="">
                <br class="">
                <blockquote
                  cite="mid:14E9F72F-E1D9-4142-9EB3-53675DF6AAE4@gmail.com"
                  type="cite" class="">
                  <div class="">
                    <div class="">
                      <div class="">Sooo…, am I ok to continue or is
                        there another reason?  ..I am on-hold here until
                        I see a reply</div>
                      <div class=""><br class="">
                      </div>
                      <div class="">Nev </div>
                      <div class=""><br class="">
                      </div>
                      <div class=""><br class="">
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                However you may want to upload one, provide a link to it
                and then see what others think.<br class="">
                <br class="">
                Cheers<br class="">
                Ross<br class="">
                <br class="">
                <br class="">
                <blockquote
                  cite="mid:14E9F72F-E1D9-4142-9EB3-53675DF6AAE4@gmail.com"
                  type="cite" class="">
                  <div class="">
                    <div class="">
                      <div class="">
                        <div class="">
                          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                            <div class="">On 22 Jan 2016, at 11:36 PM,
                              Andrew Davidson <<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:u887@internode.on.net"
                                class="">u887@internode.on.net</a>>
                              wrote:</div>
                            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                            <div class="">
                              <div class="">You can extract the
                                geometries from the database directly,
                                you don't have to scan them. I tried
                                this on three park areas to see how much
                                work was involved. The recipe I followed
                                was:<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                1. Use the query tool to find out how
                                many objects have the name that you are
                                looking for. You do this with:<br
                                  class="">
                                <br class="">
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/arcgis/rest/services/public/NSW_Administrative_Boundaries/MapServer/6/query"
                                  class="">http://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/arcgis/rest/services/public/NSW_Administrative_Boundaries/MapServer/6/query</a><br
                                  class="">
                                <br class="">
                                with the return format set to html.
                                Names must be in upper case and you need
                                to see what object ids are returned. For
                                example if you search for Yanununbeyan
                                with:<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/arcgis/rest/services/public/NSW_Administrative_Boundaries/MapServer/6/query?text=YANUNUNBEYAN&geometry=&geometryType=esriGeometryEnvelope&inSR=&spatialRel=esriSpatialRelIntersects&relationParam=&objectIds=&where=&time=&returnCountOnly=false&returnIdsOnly=false&returnGeometry=true&maxAllowableOffset=&outSR=&outFields=&f=html">http://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/arcgis/rest/services/public/NSW_Administrative_Boundaries/MapServer/6/query?text=YANUNUNBEYAN&geometry=&geometryType=esriGeometryEnvelope&inSR=&spatialRel=esriSpatialRelIntersects&relationParam=&objectIds=&where=&time=&returnCountOnly=false&returnIdsOnly=false&returnGeometry=true&maxAllowableOffset=&outSR=&outFields=&f=html</a><br
                                  class="">
                                <br class="">
                                You get three different ids
                                (198,208,1131) because there is a
                                Yanununbeyan State Conservation Area,
                                Yanununbeyan Nature Reserve, and
                                Yanununbeyan National Park. All of which
                                need to be tagged differently. Follow
                                the object links to find out what type
                                of area they are.<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                2. Having found the object id you need
                                you get the geometry by using the query
                                tool and setting the object id, setting
                                the output spatial reference to 4326
                                (WGS84), and changing the output format
                                to JSON.<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                3. Save the resulting page, say
                                output.json<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                4. Use ogr2ogr from GDAL to convert the
                                output into something JOSM can read:<br
                                  class="">
                                <br class="">
                                ogr2ogr -f "KML" output.json output.kml<br
                                  class="">
                                <br class="">
                                5. If you have the opendata plugin
                                installed you can open output.kml in
                                JOSM.<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                6. Use the simplify way option in JOSM
                                as there are far too many points in the
                                resulting kml. I personally thought that
                                the default 3m looks OK.<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                7. Tag the ways with an appropriate
                                source:geometry and add a note to the
                                effect that the way has been simplified
                                using a max error criterion set to
                                whatever you used.<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                8. Now comes the difficult and time
                                consuming bit. You have to cut up and
                                conflate the new boundaries with the
                                existing data as you merge each new way
                                from the layer you opened the kml in to
                                the layer the osm data is in. This is
                                the step where you could really make a
                                mess. <br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                I found while doing the few test cases
                                that I had to:<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                - Make sure that common boundaries use
                                only one way (which means that the more
                                parks, state forests, admin areas, etc
                                that share ways the more time consuming
                                it gets)<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                - Make judgement calls about if you
                                should use the new boundary or keep the
                                existing way where the boundary is
                                something physical on the ground like a
                                river bank or coastline. This is why I
                                tagged the new ways with source:geometry
                                so other mappers can see where they came
                                from.<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                - If there are already ways in place,
                                using the replace geometry function of
                                the utils2 plugin to try and preserve
                                history.<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                The cases I tried as a test were:<br
                                  class="">
                                <br class="">
                                South East Forest National Park:<br
                                  class="">
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                  href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5853354">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5853354</a><br
                                  class="">
                                <br class="">
                                Murramarang National Park:<br class="">
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                  href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5858067">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5858067</a><br
                                  class="">
                                <br class="">
                                Clyde River National Park:<br class="">
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                  href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5857616">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5857616</a><br
                                  class="">
                                <br class="">
                                The South East Forest case was a
                                multi-hour mapping marathon as the park
                                has a lot of separate sections and
                                shares many boundaries with neighbouring
                                state forests and parks. The other two
                                were much simpler but Murramarang need
                                more time than Clyde River as it has
                                more sections and shares a lot of common
                                ways with the coast and various rivers.<br
                                  class="">
                                <br class="">
                                As to the import question it seems to me
                                that there is a tacit agreement that
                                tracing the boundaries one at a time is
                                acceptable (not sure what the rest of
                                OSM would think about this). Given that
                                the biggest problem with an import would
                                be conflating the data with the
                                existing, provided that we're carefully
                                hand-crafting each park I think we're
                                OK. Does anyone have a differing
                                opinion?<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 13:44:12 +1000<br
                                  class="">
                                Nev Wedding <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                                  href="mailto:nwastra@gmail.com"><nwastra@gmail.com></a>
                                wrote:<br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                <blockquote type="cite" class="">Should
                                  the JOSM Scanaerial plugin be able to
                                  scan the LPI NSW<br class="">
                                  Administrative Boundaries NPWS Reserve
                                  WMS layer and others. I would<br
                                    class="">
                                  like to zoom in to a section and use
                                  the plugin as an initial pass<br
                                    class="">
                                  instead of manually mouse clicking
                                  around the long and winding<br
                                    class="">
                                  boundary and then refine the result
                                  before tagging and uploading.<br
                                    class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                    href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/Scanaerial">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/Scanaerial</a><span
                                    class="Apple-tab-span"
                                    style="white-space:pre"> </span><br
                                    class="">
                                  I am using a mac OS X and there are no
                                  instructions for that install<br
                                    class="">
                                  so I may not have it set up correctly
                                  yet, so first up before<br class="">
                                  proceeding further, I would like to
                                  know if it will help anyway. <br
                                    class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  I am unfamiliar with tracing shapes
                                  other than tediously wandering<br
                                    class="">
                                  around the boundaries one click at a
                                  time.<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  I played around with Gimp and Inkscape
                                  but found that to be quite a<br
                                    class="">
                                  task too and wasn’t sure if I could
                                  use the output in Josm in anyway.<br
                                    class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  How do you manage such tasks? Are
                                  their special mouse tools available?<br
                                    class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Is what I am trying to do essentially
                                  considered to be part of an<br
                                    class="">
                                  import and/or the current LPI layers
                                  unsuitable for the tracing<br class="">
                                  process.<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  Some links to where to find more info
                                  on this topic would be<br class="">
                                  appreciated.
                                  _______________________________________________<br
                                    class="">
                                  Talk-au mailing list<br class="">
                                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                                    href="mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a><br
                                    class="">
                                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                    href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au</a><br
                                    class="">
                                </blockquote>
                                <br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                -- <br class="">
                                Andrew Davidson <a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                                  href="mailto:u887@internode.on.net"><u887@internode.on.net></a><br
                                  class="">
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                        </div>
                        <br class="">
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <br class="">
                  <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
                  <br class="">
                  <pre class="" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Talk-au mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au</a>
</pre>
                </blockquote>
                <br class="">
              </div>
              _______________________________________________<br
                class="">
              Talk-au mailing list<br class="">
              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org" class="">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a><br
                class="">
              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au"
                class="">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au</a><br
                class="">
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br class="">
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Talk-au mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>