<html><body> The boundaries of the parks and forests are not going to be roads as they consist of a number of property lots that get declared for that purpose. Property boundaries don't run down the middle of the road, they'll be offset (at times the existing road isn't within the road reserve anymore). Property boundaries can be rivers (bank or thalweg depending) or the MHWM (also known as the "coast" in OSM). <br /><br /><br /><blockquote><br />----- Original Message -----<br /><div style="width:100%;background:rgb(228,228,228);"><div style="font-weight:bold;">From:</div> "Warin" <61sundowner@gmail.com></div><br /><div style="font-weight:bold;">To:</div><talk-au@openstreetmap.org><br /><div style="font-weight:bold;">Cc:</div><br /><div style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</div>Mon, 25 Jan 2016 08:22:08 +1100<br /><div style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</div>Re: [talk-au] JOSM Scanaerial plugin on NSW LPI layers<br /><br /><br /><div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 23/01/2016 2:36 PM, Nev Wedding
wrote:<br /></div>
<blockquote>
thanks
<div>it appears that the boundaries here sometimes follow
a topo contour and that abuts the next defined boundary which
seems reasonable.<br /><div>
<blockquote>
<div>On 23 Jan 2016, at 1:22 PM, Ross <<a href="mailto:info@4x4falcon.com"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:info@4x4falcon.com">info@4x4falcon.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline" /><div>
<div> Looks good
to me.<br /><br /><br /><br /><div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 23/01/16 13:19, Nev
Wedding wrote:<br /></div>
<blockquote>
Done…Here it is <a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5892156">http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5892156</a>
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<div>On 23 Jan 2016, at 12:43 PM, Ross
<<a href="mailto:info@4x4falcon.com">info@4x4falcon.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline" /><div>
<div>
<br /><br /><div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 23/01/16
12:26, Nev Wedding wrote:<br /></div>
<blockquote>
I have followed this process for Kooyong
State Conservation Area which has gone
well after opening the kms file and have
simplified and added all the tags,
<div>…but on trying to upload the
final boundary I get this ominous
message<br />
“
<div>You are about to upload
data from the layer 'Kooyong.kml'.<br /><br />
Sending data from this layer is <b>strongly discouraged</b>.
If you continue,<br />
it may require you subsequently have
to revert your changes, or force other
contributors to.<br /><br /><div>Are you sure you want to
continue? </div>
<div>“</div>
<div><br /></div>
<div>I assume the warning is
to dissuade mappers from careless
import of large uncorrected
datasets.?</div>
<div><br /></div>
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<br />
Yes.<br /><br /><blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<div>Sooo…, am I ok to
continue or is there another reason?
..I am on-hold here until I see a
reply</div>
<div><br /></div>
<div>Nev </div>
<div><br /></div>
<div><br /></div>
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However you may want to upload one, provide
a link to it and then see what others think.<br /><br />
Cheers<br />
Ross<br /><br /><br /><blockquote>
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<div>On 22 Jan 2016, at
11:36 PM, Andrew Davidson <<a href="mailto:u887@internode.on.net"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:u887@internode.on.net">u887@internode.on.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
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<div>You can extract
the geometries from the
database directly, you don't
have to scan them. I tried
this on three park areas to
see how much work was
involved. The recipe I
followed was:<br /><br />
1. Use the query tool to
find out how many objects
have the name that you are
looking for. You do this
with:<br /><br /><a href="http://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/arcgis/rest/services/public/NSW_Administrative_Boundaries/MapServer/6/query">http://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/arcgis/rest/services/public/NSW_Administrative_Boundaries/MapServer/6/query</a><br /><br />
with the return format set
to html. Names must be in
upper case and you need to
see what object ids are
returned. For example if you
search for Yanununbeyan
with:<br /><br /><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/arcgis/rest/services/public/NSW_Administrative_Boundaries/MapServer/6/query?text=YANUNUNBEYAN&geometry=&geometryType=esriGeometryEnvelope&inSR=&spatialRel=esriSpatialRelIntersects&relationParam=&objectIds=&where=&time=&returnCountOnly=false&returnIdsOnly=false&returnGeometry=true&maxAllowableOffset=&outSR=&outFields=&f=html">http://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/arcgis/rest/services/public/NSW_Administrative_Boundaries/MapServer/6/query?text=YANUNUNBEYAN&geometry=&geometryType=esriGeometryEnvelope&inSR=&spatialRel=esriSpatialRelIntersects&relationParam=&objectIds=&where=&time=&returnCountOnly=false&returnIdsOnly=false&returnGeometry=true&maxAllowableOffset=&outSR=&outFields=&f=html</a><br /><br />
You get three different ids
(198,208,1131) because there
is a Yanununbeyan State
Conservation Area,
Yanununbeyan Nature Reserve,
and Yanununbeyan National
Park. All of which need to
be tagged differently.
Follow the object links to
find out what type of area
they are.<br /><br />
2. Having found the object
id you need you get the
geometry by using the query
tool and setting the object
id, setting the output
spatial reference to 4326
(WGS84), and changing the
output format to JSON.<br /><br />
3. Save the resulting page,
say output.json<br /><br />
4. Use ogr2ogr from GDAL to
convert the output into
something JOSM can read:<br /><br />
ogr2ogr -f "KML" output.json
output.kml<br /><br />
5. If you have the opendata
plugin installed you can
open output.kml in JOSM.<br /><br />
6. Use the simplify way
option in JOSM as there are
far too many points in the
resulting kml. I personally
thought that the default 3m
looks OK.<br /><br />
7. Tag the ways with an
appropriate source:geometry
and add a note to the effect
that the way has been
simplified using a max error
criterion set to whatever
you used.<br /><br />
8. Now comes the difficult
and time consuming bit. You
have to cut up and conflate
the new boundaries with the
existing data as you merge
each new way from the layer
you opened the kml in to the
layer the osm data is in.
This is the step where you
could really make a mess. <br /></div>
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At some point I would add <br />
Compare to the LPI base Map for any boundary that is a feature
(river, stream, road) so that it can be tagged correctly and added
as a feature. (Not all features are in the OSM data base, so
checking against the LPI Base Map may be beneficial). <br /><br />
In part 8 .. I simply merge the entire layer. Then check each way. <br /><blockquote>
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<div>
<div> <br />
I found while doing the few
test cases that I had to:<br /><br />
- Make sure that common
boundaries use only one way
(which means that the more
parks, state forests, admin
areas, etc that share ways
the more time consuming it
gets)<br /><br />
- Make judgement calls about
if you should use the new
boundary or keep the
existing way where the
boundary is something
physical on the ground like
a river bank or coastline.
This is why I tagged the new
ways with source:geometry so
other mappers can see where
they came from.<br /><br />
- If there are already ways
in place, using the replace
geometry function of the
utils2 plugin to try and
preserve history.<br /><br />
The cases I tried as a test
were:<br /><br />
South East Forest National
Park:<br /><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5853354">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5853354</a><br /><br />
Murramarang National Park:<br /><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5858067">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5858067</a><br /><br />
Clyde River National Park:<br /><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5857616">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5857616</a><br /><br />
The South East Forest case
was a multi-hour mapping
marathon as the park has a
lot of separate sections and
shares many boundaries with
neighbouring state forests
and parks. The other two
were much simpler but
Murramarang need more time
than Clyde River as it has
more sections and shares a
lot of common ways with the
coast and various rivers.<br /><br />
As to the import question it
seems to me that there is a
tacit agreement that tracing
the boundaries one at a time
is acceptable (not sure what
the rest of OSM would think
about this). Given that the
biggest problem with an
import would be conflating
the data with the existing,
provided that we're
carefully hand-crafting each
park I think we're OK. Does
anyone have a differing
opinion?<br /><br /><br />
On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 13:44:12
+1000<br />
Nev Wedding <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nwastra@gmail.com"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nwastra@gmail.com"><nwastra@gmail.com></a> wrote:<br /><br /><blockquote>Should the JOSM
Scanaerial plugin be able
to scan the LPI NSW<br />
Administrative Boundaries
NPWS Reserve WMS layer and
others. I would<br />
like to zoom in to a
section and use the plugin
as an initial pass<br />
instead of manually mouse
clicking around the long
and winding<br />
boundary and then refine
the result before tagging
and uploading.<br /><br /><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/Scanaerial">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/Scanaerial</a><span class="Apple-tab-span"> </span><br />
I am using a mac OS X and
there are no instructions
for that install<br />
so I may not have it set
up correctly yet, so first
up before<br />
proceeding further, I
would like to know if it
will help anyway. <br /><br />
I am unfamiliar with
tracing shapes other than
tediously wandering<br />
around the boundaries one
click at a time.<br /><br />
I played around with Gimp
and Inkscape but found
that to be quite a<br />
task too and wasn’t sure
if I could use the output
in Josm in anyway.<br /><br />
How do you manage such
tasks? Are their special
mouse tools available?<br /><br />
Is what I am trying to do
essentially considered to
be part of an<br />
import and/or the current
LPI layers unsuitable for
the tracing<br />
process.<br /><br />
Some links to where to
find more info on this
topic would be<br />
appreciated.
_______________________________________________<br />
Talk-au mailing list<br /><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a><br /><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au</a><br /></blockquote>
<br /><br />
-- <br />
Andrew Davidson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:u887@internode.on.net"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:u887@internode.on.net"><u887@internode.on.net></a><br /></div>
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