<div dir="ltr">It appears so, and they just have a boilerplate response to these types of questions now.<div><br></div><div>Since we are stuck between DNRM and OSMF on CC-BY 4.0 (in no ill way) it would be good to at least clear up the current position so others don't get caught like me. The CC-BY 2.5 attribution was granted by the <a href="http://data.gov.au">data.gov.au</a> team not DNRM (or a former named department), so how relevant/legal do we think this is now that we know DNRM's position on the matter who are the actual copyright owner.</div><div><br></div><div>> [...] We have also been given explicit permission to incorporate and publish such CC-BY licensed geographic coordinate datasets under a free and open license, including the Open Database License, provided that primary attribution is made here and that each dataset used is also listed here in the format Dataset Name, Date Published, License, Agency Name, originally retrieved from <a href="http://data.australia.gov.au">http://data.australia.gov.au</a>:</div><div>> [...]</div><div>> Property Boundaries Annual Extract Queensland (Lite DCDB), unknown publication date, CC-BY 2.5 Australia, Queensland Department of Environment and Resource Management, originally retrieved from <a href="http://data.gov.au/152">http://data.gov.au/152</a> (Archived)<br></div><div><div>(<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#Commonwealth_of_Australia">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#Commonwealth_of_Australia</a>)<br></div></div><div><br></div><div>> Contains data from Australian government public information datasets. The original datasets are available from the Australian government data website under Creative Commons - Attribution 2.5 Australia (CC-BY) and Creative Commons - Attribution 3.0 Australia (CC-BY). We have also been given explicit permission to incorporate and publish such CC-BY licensed geographic coordinate datasets under a free and open license, including the Open Database License, provided that primary attribution is made here and that each dataset used is also listed here in the format Dataset Name, Date Published, License, Agency Name, originally retrieved from <a href="http://data.australia.gov.au">http://data.australia.gov.au</a></div><div>(<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/data.gov.au_explicit_permission">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/data.gov.au_explicit_permission</a>)<br></div><div><br></div><div>Even if we got an older copy of the data (which would still be very useful), we still need explicit permission to use this CC-BY 2.5 data according to OSMF:</div><div><br></div><div>> Both the 2.0 and 3.0 versions of the CC BY (Creative Commons Attribution) licence have been popular with government and other sources for a long time. Due to differences between CC BY and the ODbL with respect to attribution, the LWG (OSMF Licence/Legal Working Group) has always required explicit permission from licensors to use such data in OpenStreetMap and attribute by adding an entry to our attribution pages on our central websites.</div><div>(<a href="https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/">https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/</a>)</div><div><br></div><div>IANAL, but now that we know officially that DNRM won't give it to us on CC-BY 4.0 data they most likely wouldn't give us that permission on the CC-BY 2.x/3.x data either today, we should make changes to the contributions page to reflect that DNRM has not given us permission to incorporate their data. I'm going to revert my recent changes earlier this year which were flagged, but it also means if we come across imported data from the DCDB which there is some I've seen attributed to it, then we should remove it and replace it with something we can derive from another source.</div><div><br></div><div>Jono</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 2:40 PM Joel H. <joelh@cocaine.ninja> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>Yeah pretty much, I interpret it as "We will not deviate from
      CC-BY 4.0".<br>
    </p></div><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <br>
    <div class="m_-1865715882332646537moz-cite-prefix">On 12/03/18 14:37, Jonathon Rossi
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">Is that (second sentence) word for word the same
        response you got the first time, where they thought they'd have
        to relicense under the ODbL?<br>
        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra">P.S. sorry about not replying all with
          my last email.</div>
        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 2:31 PM, Joel
            H. <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:95.5.radio@gmail.com" target="_blank">95.5.radio@gmail.com</a>></span>
            wrote:<br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                <p>OK everyone, Here is the feedback I got after asking
                  for permission to use CC-BY 4.0 datasets:</p>
                <blockquote>
                  <p>Thank you for your enquiry regarding use of the
                    localities boundaries dataset in OpenStreetMap.<br>
                    The Department has given consideration to your
                    request and advise that, consistent with Queensland
                    Government policy, our data is provided under a
                    CC:BY 4.0 licence.  The Department will not provide
                    the data under an Open Database licence.  It is our
                    belief that a CC:BY licence is sufficient for use of
                    our data<br>
                  </p>
                </blockquote>
                <div>
                  <div class="m_-1865715882332646537h5"> <br>
                    <div class="m_-1865715882332646537m_26558026673906578moz-cite-prefix">On
                      12/03/18 14:27, Jonathon Rossi wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote type="cite">
                      <div dir="ltr">Could you please share their
                        response or paraphrase it so we can all
                        understand their reasons.
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>Thanks, Jono</div>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                        <div dir="ltr">On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 2:24 PM
                          Joel H. <<a href="mailto:95.5.radio@gmail.com" target="_blank">95.5.radio@gmail.com</a>>
                          wrote:<br>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                          <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                            <p>Hi,</p>
                            <p>I tried again, and got rejected again. I
                              had contact with someone behind a local
                              GIS company who said he would try to help.
                              But I haven't heard back. So I've put it
                              to rest for now...<br>
                            </p>
                            <p>I guess we should advocate for more
                              compatibility with CC-BY 4.0 in our
                              licence.<br>
                            </p>
                          </div>
                          <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <br>
                            <div class="m_-1865715882332646537m_26558026673906578m_-8622631802656532159moz-cite-prefix">On
                              12/03/18 13:35, Jonathon Rossi wrote:<br>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote type="cite">
                              <div dir="ltr">Joel,
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>Did you get a response from DNRM?
                                  Are you still in talks with them?</div>
                              </div>
                              <br>
                              <div class="gmail_quote">
                                <div dir="ltr">On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at
                                  10:07 PM Jonathon Rossi <<a href="mailto:jono@jonorossi.com" target="_blank">jono@jonorossi.com</a>>
                                  wrote:<br>
                                </div>
                                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                  <div dir="ltr">
                                    <div>Great to hear Joel, I was
                                      actually wondering last night if
                                      you'd already sent this off.</div>
                                    <div><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>I'm not an expert in this area
                                      so happy for others to correct me,
                                      however my reading of your
                                      description of the second section
                                      that DNRM needs to waive doesn't
                                      explain to someone not familiar
                                      with what we are requesting, I
                                      think DNRM staff are likely to
                                      think this is still too hard and
                                      push back yet again. I like <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/d/df/NSW_GNB_170427_OpenStreetMap.pdf" target="_blank">Andrew
                                        Harvey's description here</a> of
                                      both sections including the
                                      extended part of section 2, maybe
                                      he will give permission to use his
                                      description.</div>
                                    <div><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>Regarding who has signed the
                                      waiver:</div>
                                    <div>- According to the contributors
                                      page for <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/data.brisbane.qld.gov.au_explicit_permission" target="_blank">BCC</a> it
                                      appears they haven't signed the
                                      waiver because it didn't exist
                                      until early 2017 but it appears
                                      they gave explicit permission to
                                      incorporate and publish their
                                      CC-BY data under an ODbL, more
                                      than the waiver requires<br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>- The explicit permission from
                                      NSW Land and Property Information
                                      sounds the same as the BCC one
                                      giving more permission than OSMF
                                      now needs<br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>- The NSW Geographical Name
                                      Register have <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/d/df/NSW_GNB_170427_OpenStreetMap.pdf" target="_blank">signed
                                        the waiver</a></div>
                                    <div>- Victoria DELWP have <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/e/ed/Vicmap_CCBYPermission_OSM_Final_Jan2018_Ltr.pdf" target="_blank">signed
                                        the waiver</a></div>
                                    <div>- SA and MRWA seem to have
                                      explicitly agreed with the same
                                      sort of thing BCC and NSW LPI did</div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>I don't know if there was
                                        some sort of informal/old waiver
                                        or explicit permission template
                                        because the older ones are
                                        pretty similar, they obviously
                                        aren't explicit about Section
                                        2(a)(5)(B) though. If that is
                                        the case I'd amend your list of
                                        who has signed the waiver, maybe
                                        even consider linking to the NSW
                                        GNR and Victoria DELWP signed
                                        waivers proving the claim.</div>
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>Hope that helps, Jono</div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div dir="ltr">
                                    <div>
                                      <div><br>
                                        <div class="gmail_quote">
                                          <div dir="ltr">On Thu, Feb 1,
                                            2018 at 9:09 PM Joel H. <<a href="mailto:95.5.radio@gmail.com" target="_blank">95.5.radio@gmail.com</a>>
                                            wrote:<br>
                                          </div>
                                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                            <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                                              <p>Hi All! I have made a
                                                response to DNRM,
                                                regarding the licensing
                                                for locality boarders.
                                                Please give a critique
                                                before I send!<br>
                                              </p>
                                              <p><br>
                                              </p>
                                              <p><i>Hello [NAME],</i><i><br>
                                                </i><i><br>
                                                </i><i>Thank you for
                                                  your time and
                                                  consideration
                                                  regarding the approval
                                                  for OpenStreetMap.</i><i><br>
                                                </i><i><br>
                                                </i><i>As a response to
                                                  your concern over the
                                                  licence change, it
                                                  isn’t necessary for
                                                  DNRM data to be
                                                  re-licenced as a
                                                  result of usage in
                                                  OpenStreetMap. It’s
                                                  simply about signing a
                                                  waiver to clarify
                                                  minor differences in
                                                  licences. Approving
                                                  usage in OSM shouldn’t
                                                  tamper with the goals
                                                  of DNRM since OSM uses
                                                  a very similar licence
                                                  with many of the same
                                                  philosophical views.</i><i><br>
                                                </i><i><br>
                                                </i><i>The first part
                                                  that needs approval is
                                                  whether or not you
                                                  think our method of
                                                  Attribution, is
                                                  sufficient with the
                                                  “reasonable manner”
                                                  requirement of the
                                                  CC-BY 4.0. We credit
                                                  sources through the
                                                  following page: <a class="m_-1865715882332646537m_26558026673906578m_-8622631802656532159m_757410680935543674m_-8501875726109946626moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors</a>,
                                                  It’s also possible to
                                                  add sources to the
                                                  objects which are
                                                  DNRM’s data.</i><i><br>
                                                </i><i><br>
                                                </i><i>The second is to
                                                  waive Section
                                                  2(a)(5)(B) of the CC</i><i><br>
                                                </i><i>BY 4.0 license as
                                                  to OpenStreetMap and
                                                  its users with the
                                                  understanding that</i><i><br>
                                                </i><i>the Open Database
                                                  License 1.0 requires
                                                  open access or
                                                  parallel distribution
                                                  of</i><i><br>
                                                </i><i>OpenStreetMap
                                                  data.</i><i><br>
                                                </i><i><br>
                                                </i><i>Many
                                                  organisations such as
                                                  Brisbane City Council
                                                  and New South Wales
                                                  Land and Property
                                                  Information, have
                                                  already given
                                                  permission in the same
                                                  way that DNRM could.</i><i><br>
                                                </i><i><br>
                                                </i><i>I hope you take
                                                  the time to
                                                  reconsider. I’ve
                                                  attached the PDF that
                                                  is needed for your
                                                  review, keep in touch.</i><i><br>
                                                </i><i><br>
                                                </i><i><br>
                                                </i><i>Joel Hansen</i><i><br>
                                                </i><i>Local
                                                  OpenStreetMap Editor</i><br>
                                              </p>
                                              <p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%"><br>
                                              </p>
                                            </div>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                            Talk-au mailing list<br>
                                            <a href="mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
                                            <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au</a><br>
                                          </blockquote>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <br>
          <br clear="all">
          <div><br>
          </div>
          -- <br>
          <div class="m_-1865715882332646537gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Jono</div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </div></blockquote></div>