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<p>I am the Michael Collinson mentioned by Simon, (hello Simon, it
has been a while!). I still lurk on this list and after a long gap
will be spending time in Australia each year. I am in Melbourne at
the moment and look forward to meeting mappers here on my
hopefully less busy visit later this year.<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2018-03-12 22:57, Simon Poole wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:08adcd33-94c5-1bad-08f3-a344477c4487@poole.ch">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 12.03.2018 um 11:47 schrieb
Jonathon Rossi:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAGb9TQLTcarLgGz5pbFXE4W7cbLRKim415XP0TSWYof2Q72hsw@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">Sorry Simon, I really didn't intend to make
things more complicated. I just wanted to ensure someone else
doesn't get caught in the future after thinking I was doing
the right thing, and no one else has done this each time this
has come up in the past.</div>
</blockquote>
Jonathon the effort is clearly appreciated. At the time the issue
was rather hotly debated and (as I wasn't really involved at the
time) we would likely need to ask Michael Collinson for the
historic information. </blockquote>
<br>
<p>I have hesitated to get involved in this discussion as my
knowledge is now several years out of date, particularly as
regards CC 4.0. However, I can make some comments from a
historical perspective ...</p>
<p>In summary, I 100% agree with Simon that while there may be
issues with CC 4.0, earlier dataset incorporation is a "done deal"
and history. We can clearly show with a paper trail that we have
acted properly and in good faith. The only thing that I would
suggest: Various Australian government organisations have been
very helpful to us, and much earlier than most. As a courtesy, I
feel we should add a line to our high-level page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright">https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright</a>, (Simon?)<br>
</p>
<p>In more detail ...<br>
</p>
I pinpointed a number of datasets published on the data.gov.au
website under a CC-BY 2.5 license that had already been or could be
incorporated into OSM, (not CC-SA-BY and not CC 4.0, CC 4.0 did not
exist then). CC-BY 2.5 is completely compatible with our license
except the completely impractical provision, (for multi-sourced open
data), that all contributors be attributed equally - imagine
attributing 4m contributors on each map made from our data.<br>
<br>
I made successful contact with the good folks at data.gov.au with
the form that I have copied below. The upshot was a series of about
20 emails between Sept and Nov 2011. They were very helpful and
said, yep, fine to keep the data and attribute them at <span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#666666"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution</a>
(now </span><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#data.gov.au">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#data.gov.au</a>).
They requested a number of changes to the exact wording and I have
verified that it is still there.<br>
<br>
Since paper trail is very important, I am happy to forward the whole
set of emails to anyone who requests them - if you want to put them
in a public place, great.<br>
<br>
The most relevant email is this one from 2011-09-21:<br>
<br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">--------
Start -------------</span><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi
Michael,</span><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thank
you for contacting us.</span><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">We
are happy to provide you with permission that end users of
OpenStreetMap do not have to attribute all contributors equally,
however within your wiki we would need links directly to each
dataset you are using from data.gov.au. Data.gov.au provides
datasets from all three tiers of government which involved a
number of different legal entities. Providing a link to the
record enables correct attribution of the data. This also helps
us to demonstrate to agencies how their information is being used
positively and, hopefully, will encourage more open data with can
be beneficial to services such as yours.</span><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Please
let us know when this alteration is made so we can promote it
within Australian Government.</span><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Could
we also get you to change the reference to our catalogue from
data.australia.gov.au to data.gov.au.</span><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thank
you and please contact us if you require any further
clarification.</span><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards,</span><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">data.gov.au
team.</span><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">--------
End -------------<br>
<br>
Hope that helps,<br>
Michael</span>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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Collinson</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#666666">Hi,<br>
<br>
Thank you for making geographic data available under an
open license.<br>
<br>
As chairman of the OpenStreetMap Foundation's License
Working Group, I am writing to ask specific permission
to continue incorporating a small number of your
geographic coordinate datasets in our OpenStreetMap
global geo-dataset. I previously wrote to Commonwealth
Copyright Administration, Attorney General’s Department
as per earlier instructions on your website, but did not
receive an answer.<br>
<br>
The datasets in question are licensed under Creative
Commons Attribution Australia (CC-BY). We changing our
own license away from CC-BY-SA 2.0 license since we were
advised by Creative Commons that such a license is not
suitable for highly factual data. We respect the IP
rights of others and are concerned that with a different
license we may not meet your needs. We feel that without
specific permission to continue, we should remove your
data.<br>
<br>
In summary, we comply with all your licensing conditions
EXCEPT that we will no longer legally require anyone to
making a visual map from our data to equally attribute
all contributors ... this is a requirement of CC-BY, but
regretably impractical with hundreds of thousands of
individual contributors and tens to hundreds of
organisational sources. I ask your specific permission
to continue incorporation of data.gov.au geographic
datasets provided that a) we only distribute under a
free and open license as may change from time to time;
and b) that we provide primary attribution in a
reasonable manner for the perpetuity of our project, the
current mechanism being a website page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution</a><br>
<br>
I describe the position in more detail below and I am
happy to provide anything further. I can call you if
that would help.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Michael Collinson<br>
<br>
Name & Registered Office:<br>
Openstreetmap Foundation<br>
132 Maney Hill Road, Sutton Coldfield,West Midlands, B72
1JU, United Kingdom<br>
A company limited by guarantee, registered in England
and Wales. Registration No. 05912761.<br>
<br>
- The OpenStreetMap Foundation is a voluntary
organisation supporting the OpenStreetMap project, a
collaborative open project to create a world geodata
set. Over 400,000 users worldwide are collaborating to
produce free map data for anyone anywhere to use. <br>
<br>
- Most of our geodata is contributed by individuals.
However, we are very grateful when able to incorporate
other geo-data datasets where license<br>
terms are compatible and I thank you and the Australian
Government for<br>
making such data available.<br>
<br>
- We have some data in our database that is derived from
data.gov.au datasets.<br>
<br>
- We intend to make our geodata available in perpetuity
under a free and open licence<br>
<br>
- We intend to move that license very shortly from
Creative Commons <br>
Attribution/Share-Alike 2.0, which is explicitly
compatible with your <br>
licenses, to Open Database License 1.0 [1], an
attribution and <br>
share-alike license written specifically for databases.
We do this in <br>
major part because Creative Commons stated that theirs
was not an <br>
appropriate license for data and because it is highly
impractical to <br>
force users of our data to attribute every contributor
to our database <br>
in all parts of the world on all maps.<br>
<br>
- We directly attribute you [2].<br>
<br>
- We have almost finished altering our systems so that
each and any <br>
extraction of even a single point will contain a link to
our attribution <br>
page. There is therefore a direct attribution trail back
to the you.<br>
<br>
- HOWEVER, the Open Database License does not force
anyone who makes a <br>
map from our data, a "Produced Work" rather than a
derived database, to <br>
individually attribute each and every contributor to
OpenStreetMap, <br>
which number several hundred thousand and a large and
growing number of formal first-level attribution
notices. A map might be made anywhere in the world and
even if in Australia may or may not contain information
derived from you.<br>
<br>
[1] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/">http://www.opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/</a><br>
<br>
[2] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution</a> and <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright">http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright</a></span></p>
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