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<p>Hi.</p>
<p>So there are 2 issues (it seems): At what zoom does the road
show, and at what zoom does the name show?</p>
<p>Take for example
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/-31.7211/150.4649">https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/-31.7211/150.4649</a></p>
<p>At this zoom no roads have names.</p>
<p>Zoom in to 12, and you see highway=unclassified roads that
weren't visible at 11.</p>
<p>You don't start to see the names of any roads at all until zoom
13. At zoom 15 you see the names of all roads.</p>
<p>I think showing more detail a little bit sooner when there is
less detail to show is going to be a difficult problem for a
renderer to solve in a way that makes more sense than the current
popular renderers.</p>
<p>I think going from some roads to all roads over 2 zooms
(13->15) is not a bad compromise.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p> - Ben.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 22/1/19 13:50, Graeme Fitzpatrick
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP4zaXod+ZCk4m-yaxJC6DA+aqX9jEkWeAVeRLd805UWVSscug@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">A while back, there was mention on the list of OSM
only showing vast amounts of blank whiteness when looking at
remote country areas; & then there was further mention
regarding Aussie country roads not showing up well enough in
OSM.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A lady I speak to on another forum, lives in a small town
in FNQ, & had complained on the forum about various
on-line maps not showing any details.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>After I asked her for some details, so we could possibly
examine things, she has said: (for privacy, I have deleted the
name of her actual town):</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<p style="margin:0.8em
0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:CustomOpenSans,Verdana,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.6px;background-color:rgb(204,201,197)">I
live in an isolated remote town called xxxxxxx, although not
as isolated as some. Two hours/150km west of Mareeba and three
hours/210km west of Cairns. <br>
So its: Cairns, Mareeba, Dimbulah, Petford, Almaden,
Chillagoe. Petford & Almaden are way smaller than xxxxx.</p>
<p style="margin:0.8em
0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:CustomOpenSans,Verdana,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.6px;background-color:rgb(204,201,197)">I
rarely use Google Maps, but use Google Earth a lot. Today is
probably the first time I've looked at GM for this specific
area.</p>
<p style="margin:0.8em
0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:CustomOpenSans,Verdana,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.6px;background-color:rgb(204,201,197)">I've
now realised OpenStreetMaps is actually no worse than Google
Maps, and in some things it's actually better.</p>
<p style="margin:0.8em
0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:CustomOpenSans,Verdana,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.6px;background-color:rgb(204,201,197)">Zooming
into xxxxxx, OpenStreetMaps is accurate and up-to-date, with
roads and tracks that are actually in use.</p>
<p style="margin:0.8em
0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:CustomOpenSans,Verdana,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.6px;background-color:rgb(204,201,197)">Google
Maps shows streets that no longer exist. They may be/have
been/are gazetted roads, but now don't even look like they
ever existed even in track form (although they did way way
back in the mining days, I think).</p>
<p style="margin:0.8em
0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:CustomOpenSans,Verdana,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.6px;background-color:rgb(204,201,197)">The
problem when I originally commented was that if I looked at
the area between Dimbulah (or Petford) and Chillagoe, there
was nothing to tell me the name of the road. But looking at
Google Maps today, there's nothing there either. Although when
I zoom in a name comes up more quickly than it does on
OpenStreetMaps.</p>
<p style="margin:0.8em
0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:CustomOpenSans,Verdana,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.6px;background-color:rgb(204,201,197)">If
I'm looking at a hard copy paper map from RACQ or Sunmap or
whoever, I can see at a glance where I am and what the names
of everything are.</p>
<p style="margin:0.8em
0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:CustomOpenSans,Verdana,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.6px;background-color:rgb(204,201,197)">It's
just that our distances are vast, and at the amount zoomed out
that I want some detail, the populated areas have no detail
either. So in a way I can't expect it.</p>
<p style="margin:0.8em
0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:CustomOpenSans,Verdana,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.6px;background-color:rgb(204,201,197)">However,
outback roads are usually the *only* roads there are and it
would be nice to have labelling when that much zoomed out. (Is
this making sense to you?)</p>
<p style="margin:0.8em
0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:CustomOpenSans,Verdana,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.6px;background-color:rgb(204,201,197)">I
have a reasonable knowledge of east coast highways and roads
between them (mainly Qld and NSW) and reference to a map is
just double checking or looking for shortcuts or detours. I'm
a bit of a map freak. Have a stack of hard copy maps for the
east coast, and spend time on Google Earth and Google Maps
just checking out old and new roads, and looking up places I
read about in the news. Unfortunately I'm not that good with
terrain on topo maps, but never needed to use them enough. And
I've recently learned that I need to double check altitudes on
GE before I make assumptions about geography. Not always what
it looks like.</p>
<p style="margin:0.8em
0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:CustomOpenSans,Verdana,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.6px;background-color:rgb(204,201,197)">Here
is a starting point for my area. (Bearing in mind I'm on a
Sony Vaio with a 13 inch screen (13.3" ??).)</p>
<p style="margin:0.8em
0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:CustomOpenSans,Verdana,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.6px;background-color:rgb(204,201,197)">Google
Maps<br>
Seems to have more 'stops' in its zoom ability. <br>
<a class="external" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-17.3121687,144.755859,11.75z"
style="background:url("/img/extlink.gif") 100% 0%
no-repeat
transparent;color:rgb(34,51,153);text-decoration-line:none;padding-right:7px"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-17.3121687,144.755859,11.75z</a><br>
Looking at it today</p>
<p style="margin:0.8em
0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:CustomOpenSans,Verdana,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.6px;background-color:rgb(204,201,197)">OpenStreetMap<br>
Unfamiliar map. If I zoom in more than this I have absolutely
nothing...<br>
Not enough 'stops' in the zoom. All or nothing.<br>
<a class="external" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/-17.2500/144.7895"
style="background:url("/img/extlink.gif") 100% 0%
no-repeat
transparent;color:rgb(34,51,153);text-decoration-line:none;padding-right:7px"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/-17.2500/144.7895</a></p>
<p style="margin:0.8em
0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:CustomOpenSans,Verdana,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.6px;background-color:rgb(204,201,197)">Also,
at first glance it looks like the railway line is the main
road. In fact you can't see there's a road there until I zoom
right in. You can see the rest of Burke Development Road to
Chillagoe, you can see the road from Petford to Irvinebank,
but you can't see the Almaden Gingerella Road running
generally to the west of the rail line, and on down to Mount
Garnet or Mount Surprise. You wouldn't know it was there.
(Local name is the Ootan Road.)</p>
<p style="margin:0.8em
0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:CustomOpenSans,Verdana,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.6px;background-color:rgb(204,201,197)">Google
Maps is not much better to look at, but you can see the road,
and the road is 'highlighted' (slightly)more than the rail
line.</p>
<div><span
style="background-color:rgb(204,201,197);color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:CustomOpenSans,Verdana,"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.6px">This
railway line carries The Savannahlander which leaves Cairns
for Forsayth on Wednesday and returns on Saturday except in
the Wet Season. Nothing else travels on it, except the
occasional QR Toyota with rail wheels.</span> <br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div>So, to me, a lot of this would seem to tie in with
country roads being mapped as =unclassified (& I
noticed from clearing some of the Telenav errors, that
it doesn't seem to like highway=unclassified, having
street names?), with even the "main" road only being
=secondary (if that!).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Her other comment re population areas not being
visible is also tied back in to the frequent discussions
we've had about size of places, Europe v Oz - these
"towns" are (correctly) mapped as place=villages as they
only have 200-300 people living in them, but they're the
social, commercial & financial centre for a couple
of thousand sq km :-(</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nice to hear that we actually compare quite well with
the mega-$ enemy :-), but it would be nice to be able to
do better! :-)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Any thoughts of any way of fixing this sort of
"problem", apart from lieing to the map? :-)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Thanks
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Graeme</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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