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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I object. <br>
amenity=shelter I see as a man made object, some with better
shelter than others. <br>
I think these should remain in the 'natural key space, possibly
natural=overhang? <br>
<br>
But then what do I know??? <br>
<br>
amenity=shelter has <br>
<tt dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"
style="background:#EEF;font-size:1em;line-height:1.6"><bdi
style="white-space:nowrap"><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shelter_type"
title="Key:shelter type">shelter_type</a></bdi>=<bdi>rock_shelter</bdi></tt>
- A rock shelter is a shallow cave-like opening at the base of a
bluff or cliff<br>
<br>
and that looks to fit perfectly! <br>
<br>
I'd not tag them as camp sites, let people evaluate them and the
surrounds themselves for camping rather than suggest a place. <br>
<br>
<br>
On 01/04/19 08:39, Andrew Harvey wrote:<br>
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<p style="margin:0.5em 0px;line-height:inherit"><font
face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14px">>
when (how deep) does a rock overhang / shelter
become an actual cave? :-)</span></font></p>
<div>Some judgement is needed, but the ones I've seen are
pretty clear cut as being one or the other.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<p style="margin:0.5em
0px;line-height:inherit;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dshelter"
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dshelter</a> just
says "A <a
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelter_%28building%29"
class="extiw" title="wikipedia:Shelter (building)"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(102,51,102);background:none"
moz-do-not-send="true">shelter</a> is small place to
protect against bad weather conditions." which is mostly
what these overhangs are used for, so I think it's the
appropriate tag. If that shelter is frequently used as a
camp site (now, not just historically) then can be
tagged tourism=camp_site with a few extra tags from <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism=camp_site"
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism=camp_site</a> to
help distinguish this small camp site from the larger
ones.</p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14px">Is
"not meant for sleeping, no cooking or heating
equipement inside" supposed to be a criteria for a
shelter?</span></font></div>
<div><font face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14px"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14px">I
would say no. We should tag the rock overhang for what
it is, and use tourism=camp_site to say if it's
commonly used for sleeping too.</span></font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 1 Apr 2019 at 08:07,
Graeme Fitzpatrick <<a href="mailto:graemefitz1@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">graemefitz1@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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class="gmail-m_1561704519190141757gmail_signature">
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 at
18:14, Andrew Harvey <<a
href="mailto:andrew.harvey4@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">andrew.harvey4@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
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0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Rock overhangs (rock shelters) have
been quite extensively mistagged in Australia as
natural=cave_entrance.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Are there any objections to re-tagging these
overhangs tagged as natural=cave_entrance to
amenity=shelter + shelter_type=rock_shelter?</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>No real objection, Andrew, but when (how deep) does a
rock overhang / shelter become an actual cave? :-)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also noticed in the discussion comments on </div>
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<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shelter_type"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shelter_type</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">Can
you look if this could be tagged as a shelter ?</span><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> </span><a
rel="nofollow"
class="gmail-m_1561704519190141757external
gmail-m_1561704519190141757gmail-free"
href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Champlitte,_%C3%A9craigne.jpg"
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:initial;text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(102,51,102);padding-right:13px"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Champlitte,_%C3%A9craigne.jpg</a><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> </span><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User:Tounoki&action=edit&redlink=1"
class="gmail-m_1561704519190141757gmail-new"
title="User:Tounoki (page does not exist)"
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;background:none;text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(165,88,88)"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Tounoki</a><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> </span><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">(</span><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tounoki&action=edit&redlink=1"
class="gmail-m_1561704519190141757gmail-new"
title="User talk:Tounoki (page does not exist)"
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;background:none;text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(165,88,88)"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">talk</a><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">) 14:16,
21 April 2013 (UTC)</span></div>
<dl
style="margin-top:0.2em;margin-bottom:0.5em;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<dd
style="margin-left:1.6em;margin-bottom:0.1em;margin-right:0px">If
it is open to the public, not meant for sleeping, no
cooking or heating equipement inside, then yes, you
could use <tt dir="ltr"
class="gmail-m_1561704519190141757gmail-mw-content-ltr"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:1em;direction:ltr;background:rgb(238,238,255);line-height:1.6"><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:amenity"
title="Key:amenity"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">amenity</a>=<a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dshelter"
title="Tag:amenity=shelter"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">shelter</a></tt> +<tt
dir="ltr"
class="gmail-m_1561704519190141757gmail-mw-content-ltr"
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:1em;direction:ltr;background:rgb(238,238,255);line-height:1.6"><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shelter"
title="Key:shelter"
style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">shelter</a>=<a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:shelter%3Dweather_shelter&action=edit&redlink=1"
class="gmail-m_1561704519190141757gmail-new"
title="Tag:shelter=weather shelter (page does not
exist)"
style="color:rgb(165,88,88);background:none"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">weather_shelter </a>"</tt></dd>
</dl>
<div>Is "<span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">not
meant for sleeping, no cooking or heating equipement
inside" supposed to be a criteria for a shelter?</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">Some
of the overhangs I've seen are pitch black underneath
from many thousands of years of cooking fires, &
are acknowledged as places that Aboriginal peoples
camped during bad weather - does that mean they're not
shelters? (although I don't know what else they would
then be?)</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br>
</span></div>
<div>Thanks
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Graeme</div>
</div>
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