<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="gmail_attr">Forwarding this email to the list, as it was held in moderation due to the embedded images.</div><div class="gmail_attr"><br></div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <strong class="gmail_sendername" dir="auto">Andrew Harvey</strong> <span dir="auto"><<a href="mailto:andrew.harvey4@gmail.com">andrew.harvey4@gmail.com</a>></span><br>Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 at 19:55<br>Subject: Re: [talk-au] Road classification in AUS<br>To: Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search) <<a href="mailto:v-maalek@microsoft.com">v-maalek@microsoft.com</a>><br>Cc: <a href="mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org">talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a> <<a href="mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org">talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a>><br></div><br><br><div dir="ltr"><div>Thanks for the examples.</div><div><br></div><div dir="ltr">On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 at 19:27, Aleksandar Matejevic (E-Search) <<a href="mailto:v-maalek@microsoft.com" target="_blank">v-maalek@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:<b> </b></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745WordSection1">
<p class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745paragraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline">
<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"><b>Motorway or Trunk: </b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=-38.3999033%2C145.5370408#map=16/-38.4011/145.5388" target="_blank"><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(5,99,193)">-38.3999033,145.5370408</span></b></span></a></span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"><b> </b></span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun">Follow this Mapillary. </span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=-38.39942489999999&lng=145.5372489&z=19.64334424490615&focus=photo&pKey=QjkvLvLb1fNa_SNzVpbcgw" target="_blank"><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=-38.39942489999999&lng=145.5372489&z=19.64334424490615&focus=photo&pKey=QjkvLvLb1fNa_SNzVpbcgw</span></span></a></span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun">This is [M420], motorway which enters the town. Should the part through the town be mapped as trunk or to keep it as motorway, because when it leaves town it is for sure motorway but in town it does not fulfill the description of
 motorway, also it has traffic signals.</span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> </span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>According to the OSM wiki highway=motorway is for a controlled access highway, which wikipedia says:<br></div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">"A controlled-access highway provides an unhindered flow of traffic, with no </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_signals" class="m_123839768723254899gmail-mw-redirect" title="Traffic signals" style="background-image:none;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank">traffic signals</a><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">, </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersection_(road)" title="Intersection (road)" style="background-image:none;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank">intersections</a><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> or </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontage" title="Frontage" style="background-image:none;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank">property access</a><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">. They are free of any </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-grade_intersection" class="m_123839768723254899gmail-mw-redirect" title="At-grade intersection" style="background-image:none;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank">at-grade crossings</a><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> with other roads, railways, or pedestrian paths, which are instead carried by </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpass" title="Overpass" style="background-image:none;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank">overpasses</a><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> and </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underpass" class="m_123839768723254899gmail-mw-redirect" title="Underpass" style="background-image:none;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank">underpasses</a><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">. Entrances and exits to the highway are provided at </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchange_(road)" title="Interchange (road)" style="background-image:none;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank">interchanges</a><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> by slip roads (ramps), which allow for speed changes between the highway and </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arterial_road" title="Arterial road" style="background-image:none;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank">arterials</a><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> and </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collector_road" title="Collector road" style="background-image:none;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank">collector roads</a><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">. On the controlled-access highway, opposing directions of travel are generally separated by a </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_strip" title="Median strip" style="background-image:none;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank">median strip</a><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> or central reservation containing a </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_barrier" title="Traffic barrier" style="background-image:none;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank">traffic barrier</a><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> or grass. Elimination of conflicts with other directions of traffic dramatically improves safety</span><sup id="m_123839768723254899gmail-cite_ref-1" class="m_123839768723254899gmail-reference" style="line-height:1;unicode-bidi:isolate;white-space:nowrap;font-size:11.2px;font-family:sans-serif"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled-access_highway#cite_note-1" style="text-decoration-line:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none" target="_blank">[1]</a></sup><span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> and capacity."</span> <br></div><div><br></div><div>Based on this, the Bass Highway is trunk not a motorway (it has traffic lights, roundabouts, it doesn't provide onramp/offramps), so I think you need to revert your recent tag change to this road, not just for the sections through towns, but for the whole road.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745WordSection1"><p class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745paragraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745paragraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline">
<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"><b>Trunk or Primary: </b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=-34.8378323%2C%20138.5029666#map=18/-34.83795/138.50335" target="_blank"><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(5,99,193)">-34.8378323,
 138.5029666</span></b></span></a></span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745paragraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-align:justify;vertical-align:baseline">
<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun">We will follow the [A16] route from junction Victoria Road – Nelson Street. These two roads are on the same [A16] route. Victoria Road is mapped as Trunk, but Nelson Street is set as Primary Road. These both roads look almost the
 same – two separate ways with two or three lanes, no barrier in between:</span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"><b>Nelson Street</b></span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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</p>
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<span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo&pKey=kJLW93dqu0t4cM34Al4wtA&lat=-34.83935459862475&lng=138.4998110442043&z=17" target="_blank"><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo&pKey=kJLW93dqu0t4cM34Al4wtA&lat=-34.83935459862475&lng=138.4998110442043&z=17</span></span></a></span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745paragraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline">
<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"><b>Victoria Road</b></span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745paragraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo&pKey=fqlFms86fTiE-ODwBcrHhQ&lat=-34.83792630649351&lng=138.50419954805196&z=1.8746717329999287" target="_blank"><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo&pKey=fqlFms86fTiE-ODwBcrHhQ&lat=-34.83792630649351&lng=138.50419954805196&z=1.8746717329999287</span></span></a></span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745paragraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745paragraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline">
<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun">The only difference is road type (Road vs Street). But, route [A16] then continues in Semaphore Road, which also looks </span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745advancedproofingissue">exactly the same</span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"> as previous two roads, but
 it is mapped as Primary Road. This street to me also looks as trunk. Part of Semaphore Road which is not on [A16] route is mapped as <b>secondary</b>, but it looks like a <b>primary</b> road. In this case, should Semaphore Road be mapped as trunk – primary,
 instead of primary – secondary?</span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> </span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It's not just the physical condition of the road, but also how important that road is from the road network perspective, so generally the more traffic the road gets and the more "important" it is in terms of linking major centres together, then the higher the classification. So in that way, two roads which look the same can have different classification based on their importance in the road network.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745WordSection1"><p class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745paragraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745paragraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline">
<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745paragraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline">
<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun">Next case, on [A16] route, <b>Causeway Road</b> is </span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745advancedproofingissue">definitely a</span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"> primary road. </span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745paragraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745paragraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline">
<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745paragraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><a href="https://openstreetcam.org/details/1341011/254/track-info" target="_blank"><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://openstreetcam.org/details/1341011/254/track-info</span></span></a></span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745paragraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline">
<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun">Further on, [A16] continues to <b>Bower Road</b>, which looks like a trunk road, but it’s mapped as a primary.</span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo&pKey=_jlpimXN_-a17Mt8E92wRg&lat=-34.852086664809406&lng=138.49658016539593&z=17" target="_blank"><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo&pKey=_jlpimXN_-a17Mt8E92wRg&lat=-34.852086664809406&lng=138.49658016539593&z=17</span></span></a></span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun">These all roads are on the same [A16] route.</span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun">If we compare what is written here </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway" target="_blank"><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway</span></span></a></span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745normaltextrun"> with
 M, A, B, C routes then we find that A route, in most cases, primarily consists of trunks. Putting Causeway Road on a side, all other mentioned roads look the same, but only one of them is mapped as trunk. Should all of them be turned into trunks? If yes, what
 to do with Causeway Road? Turn it into trunk because of A route or leave it as is?</span><span class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745eop"> </span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I would ignore the A, B, C etc. classification, and instead map based on the road importance within the network. Indeed that's exactly how <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway</a> describes the tag values as different levels of importance within the road network in connecting places.</div><div><br></div><div>I wouldn't concern myself too much with what official data says, nor with the ref numbers, instead go with local knowledge of the road importance.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="m_123839768723254899gmail-m_1003371969342728745WordSection1">
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