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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">your case 1 appears to me like a
parking lane. With or without cycle lane this is a common
occurrence in most suburbs. I've asked about parking lanes some
time ago.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">case 2 - what is the lane between the
two continuous lines for?<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">case 3 - this is where I ask me at what
width does a shoulder start being a shoulder?</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">case 4 - have not notices that one.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I give you case 5 - similar to case 3
but with markings to indicate bicycle use, on junctions there are
even green cycle lanes.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-32.78641/151.92969">https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-32.78641/151.92969</a></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Case 5 was the reason I've raise the
question. Following your cases I would tag it (shouder=yes,
cycleway=lane) I do recall signs with bikes on them along the
road, which I would interpret as official cycle way? However I
noticed that there was no line marked on the outside of the road.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I think that the shoulder tag is more
important on higher level roads and rural roads. In urban areas,
residential roads I would use the parking lane tags.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 23/1/20 5:34 pm, Andrew Harvey
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAD5VjssvSTUfsVxnkj8Fvx3VaU6exV7_X8Sq9uqokmX1RHcgEg@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 14:19, Sebastian S. <<a
href="mailto:mapping@consebt.de" moz-do-not-send="true">mapping@consebt.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi, what is the view of
tagging road shoulders and particularly when they have
painted bicycle signs?<br>
<br>
Motorways would be another candidate.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I've seen a few different scenarios.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- a dedicate cycle lane (only used as a cyclelane, not
an emergency shoulder) cycleway=lane + shoulder=no eg <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-33.81151/151.18789"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-33.81151/151.18789</a></div>
<div>- a shoulder which doubles as a marked cycle lane (it's
an emergency shoulder, but with markings to indicate
bicycle use) (shouder=yes, cycleway=lane) eg <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-34.64938/150.84838"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-34.64938/150.84838</a></div>
<div>- a shoulder which can be used by bicycles but has no
bicycle markings or signage (shoulder=yes cycleway=no,
bicycle=yes) eg <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-34.58996/150.60760"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-34.58996/150.60760</a></div>
<div>- have both a cycle lane and a shoulder, though
segregated by paint (cycleway=lane, shoulder=yes) - no way
to distinguish this from case (2) eg. <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-33.43134/151.29444"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-33.43134/151.29444</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I admit though this can be subjective.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So my rule of thumb is if there is a painted marking
for bicycles and it's separated from other traffic from
paint then use cycleway=lane, you can also then consider
if this is a road shoulder too and add shoulder=yes if so.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 at
14:30, Ian Sergeant <<a
href="mailto:inas66%2Bosm@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">inas66+osm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
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0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
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<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Hi, </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Shoulders should always be tagged
appropriately.</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Shoulders legally in Australia can be used by all
bicycles - whether or not they have a bicycle stencil
(painted bicycle sign) And a bicycle lane is legally
indicated by a sign and not a stencil. Legally the
stencil has no meaning at all.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My view is we should be tagging based on the effective
feature on the ground, and not solely based on if it meets a
specific legal classification. So while legally it might
need to meet certain crieteria to be an official "cycle
lane" so long as it's dedicated for use by bicycles and
separated from other traffic, it's effectively a
cycleway=lane in OSM.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I've also seen some shoulders that are quite rough and not great
cycle lanes.<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAD5VjssvSTUfsVxnkj8Fvx3VaU6exV7_X8Sq9uqokmX1RHcgEg@mail.gmail.com">
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> <br>
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0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<div>My personal advice currently in Australia is to
caution against indicating there is bicycle
infrastructure where there is no amenity. Since,
this is a far greater problem in OSM than missing
cycle routes and infrastructure, and takes far longer
to correct and survey. Google Maps has actually come
from behind to lead OSM in this aspect now in Sydney
in most areas.<br>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
Ian, could you clarify the problem? I understand you refer to
amenity as in signs and stencils for cycle routes?<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAD5VjssvSTUfsVxnkj8Fvx3VaU6exV7_X8Sq9uqokmX1RHcgEg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Are there any places in particular you think we are
lacking? I've been working hard to add new recently built
infrastructure and well as remove cycle tags from OSM where
there is nothing left on the ground anymore.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>That said, most motorways that have a wide
shoulder, a cycle stencil, and permit cycling have a
bicycle lane indicated. I think this is probably
appropriate.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
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<div>Ian.</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at
14:19, Sebastian S. <<a
href="mailto:mapping@consebt.de" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">mapping@consebt.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi, what is the
view of tagging road shoulders and particularly when
they have painted bicycle signs?<br>
<br>
Motorways would be another candidate.<br>
<br>
A wiki entry for shoulder exists but is very basic <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shoulder" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shoulder</a>_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote>
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