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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi,</div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">your case 1 appears to me like a
      parking lane. With or without cycle lane this is a common
      occurrence in most suburbs. I've asked about parking lanes some
      time ago.<br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">case 2 - what is the lane between the
      two continuous lines for?<br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">case 3 - this is where I ask me at what
      width does a shoulder start being a shoulder?</div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">case 4 - have not notices that one.</div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">I give you case 5 - similar to case 3
      but with markings to indicate bicycle use, on junctions there are
      even green cycle lanes.
      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-32.78641/151.92969">https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-32.78641/151.92969</a></div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Case 5 was the reason I've raise the
      question. Following your cases I would tag it (shouder=yes,
      cycleway=lane) I do recall signs with bikes on them along the
      road, which I would interpret as official cycle way? However I
      noticed that there was no line marked on the outside of the road.</div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">I think that the shoulder tag is more
      important on higher level roads and rural roads. In urban areas,
      residential roads I would use the parking lane tags.<br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 23/1/20 5:34 pm, Andrew Harvey
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAD5VjssvSTUfsVxnkj8Fvx3VaU6exV7_X8Sq9uqokmX1RHcgEg@mail.gmail.com">
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          <div dir="ltr">On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 14:19, Sebastian S. <<a
              href="mailto:mapping@consebt.de" moz-do-not-send="true">mapping@consebt.de</a>>
            wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi, what is the view of
              tagging road shoulders and particularly when they have
              painted bicycle signs?<br>
              <br>
              Motorways would be another candidate.<br>
            </blockquote>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>I've seen a few different scenarios.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>- a dedicate cycle lane (only used as a cyclelane, not
              an emergency shoulder) cycleway=lane + shoulder=no eg <a
                href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-33.81151/151.18789"
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-33.81151/151.18789</a></div>
            <div>- a shoulder which doubles as a marked cycle lane (it's
              an emergency shoulder, but with markings to indicate
              bicycle use) (shouder=yes, cycleway=lane) eg <a
                href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-34.64938/150.84838"
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-34.64938/150.84838</a></div>
            <div>- a shoulder which can be used by bicycles but has no
              bicycle markings or signage (shoulder=yes cycleway=no,
              bicycle=yes) eg <a
                href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-34.58996/150.60760"
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-34.58996/150.60760</a></div>
            <div>- have both a cycle lane and a shoulder, though
              segregated by paint (cycleway=lane, shoulder=yes) - no way
              to distinguish this from case (2) eg. <a
                href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-33.43134/151.29444"
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-33.43134/151.29444</a></div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>I admit though this can be subjective.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>So my rule of thumb is if there is a painted marking
              for bicycles and it's separated from other traffic from
              paint then use cycleway=lane, you can also then consider
              if this is a road shoulder too and add shoulder=yes if so.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 at
            14:30, Ian Sergeant <<a
              href="mailto:inas66%2Bosm@gmail.com"
              moz-do-not-send="true">inas66+osm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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              <div dir="ltr">Hi, </div>
              <div dir="ltr"><br>
              </div>
              <div dir="ltr">Shoulders should always be tagged
                appropriately.</div>
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>Shoulders legally in Australia can be used by all
                  bicycles - whether or not they have a bicycle stencil
                  (painted bicycle sign)  And a bicycle lane is legally
                  indicated by a sign and not a stencil.  Legally the
                  stencil has no meaning at all.</div>
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          </blockquote>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>My view is we should be tagging based on the effective
            feature on the ground, and not solely based on if it meets a
            specific legal classification. So while legally it might
            need to meet certain crieteria to be an official "cycle
            lane" so long as it's dedicated for use by bicycles and
            separated from other traffic, it's effectively a
            cycleway=lane in OSM.</div>
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    </blockquote>
    <p>I've also seen some shoulders that are quite rough and not great
      cycle lanes.<br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAD5VjssvSTUfsVxnkj8Fvx3VaU6exV7_X8Sq9uqokmX1RHcgEg@mail.gmail.com">
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          <div> <br>
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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              <div dir="ltr">
                <div>My personal advice currently in Australia is to
                  caution against indicating there is bicycle
                  infrastructure where there is no amenity.   Since,
                  this is a far greater problem in OSM than missing
                  cycle routes and infrastructure, and takes far longer
                  to correct and survey.  Google Maps has actually come
                  from behind to lead OSM in this aspect now in Sydney
                  in most areas.<br>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Ian, could you clarify the problem? I understand you refer to
    amenity as in signs and stencils for cycle routes?<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAD5VjssvSTUfsVxnkj8Fvx3VaU6exV7_X8Sq9uqokmX1RHcgEg@mail.gmail.com">
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        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Are there any places in particular you think we are
            lacking? I've been working hard to add new recently built
            infrastructure and well as remove cycle tags from OSM where
            there is nothing left on the ground anymore.</div>
          <div> </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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              <div dir="ltr">
                <div>That said, most motorways that have a wide
                  shoulder, a cycle stencil, and permit cycling have a
                  bicycle lane indicated.  I think this is probably
                  appropriate.<br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>Ian.</div>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at
                  14:19, Sebastian S. <<a
                    href="mailto:mapping@consebt.de" target="_blank"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">mapping@consebt.de</a>>
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
                  0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                  rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi, what is the
                  view of tagging road shoulders and particularly when
                  they have painted bicycle signs?<br>
                  <br>
                  Motorways would be another candidate.<br>
                  <br>
                  A wiki entry for shoulder exists but is very basic <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shoulder" target="_blank"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shoulder</a>_______________________________________________<br>
                  Talk-au mailing list<br>
                  <a href="mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
                  <a
                    href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au"
                    rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au</a><br>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
            </div>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            Talk-au mailing list<br>
            <a href="mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank"
              moz-do-not-send="true">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
            <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au"
              rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au</a><br>
          </blockquote>
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    </blockquote>
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