<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I don’t think we should blame routing software, if there is fundamental issue in the data set it uses to undertake the routing.<div class="">In my experience, where paths are correctly tagged, the routing software will not venture onto paths where the permissions do not permit it. For the majority of instances, there aren’t any issues.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In some instances, the footpaths are set to bicycle=yes which is in correct. I have ventured out on the bike to verify that there was a sign to allow bicycles but to no avail.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 3 Oct 2021, at 6:07 pm, <a href="mailto:osm.talk-au@thorsten.engler.id.au" class="">osm.talk-au@thorsten.engler.id.au</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="">This really is all already covered under:<br class=""><br class=""><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Verifiability" class="">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Verifiability</a><br class=""><br class="">and <br class=""><br class="">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Don.27t_map_for_the_render<br class="">er<br class=""><br class="">(which should also apply to "don't map for the [broken] router").<br class=""><br class="">-----Original Message-----<br class="">From: forster@ozonline.com.au <forster@ozonline.com.au> <br class="">Sent: Sunday, 3 October 2021 16:34<br class="">To: Kim Oldfield <osm@oldfield.wattle.id.au>; Kim Oldfield via Talk-au<br class=""><talk-au@openstreetmap.org><br class="">Subject: Re: [talk-au] Cycling on Victorian paths<br class=""><br class="">Hi all<br class=""><br class="">I am thinking that unless we pay a lawyer and get a legal opinion we will<br class="">never be sure what the law is.<br class=""><br class="">Given that uncertainty we have two principles to choose from, I'll call them<br class="">the "precautionary principle" and the "somebody else's problem" principle.<br class="">(Maybe better called the ground truth principle.)<br class=""><br class="">I hope this does not misrepresent anybody's position but I think Sebastian<br class="">Azagra would say that we have a moral responsibility to protect people from<br class="">the risk of getting a large fine.<br class=""><br class="">I and others have argued that we OSM should stop at recording what is on the<br class="">ground and leave the difficult legal interpretation to map renderers.<br class=""><br class="">Not sure how we arrive at a resolution.<br class=""><br class="">Tony<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">On 3/10/21 9:13 am, Sebastian Azagra via Talk-au wrote:<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">In my view, some of the data in OSM is incorrect as a footpath will <br class=""> some times have permission bicycle=yes which is incorrect. The <br class="">majority of the time allowed access will have bicycle=unspecified <br class="">(not defined)which I think is fine.<br class="">The issue is that cycling software, apps and gps units used by <br class="">cyclist takes information from OSM and then creates a route based <br class="">on the permission assigned to the road/path in OSM.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">In Victoria cycling is not allowed on most footpaths (for most adults).<br class="">The is defined in the wiki at<br class="">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access_restri<br class="">ctions#Australia and more formally in OSM at <br class="">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2316741<br class=""><br class="">As far as I'm concerned, routing software should be using these as <br class="">part of the decision on when to route bikes down footpaths. Any <br class="">software which ignores these should be have a bug report logged. We <br class="">should not tag all footpaths with bicycle=no just for software which <br class="">doesn't understand the defaults already configured in OSM.<br class=""><br class="">It looks like Thosten Engler[*] has just said the same thing.<br class=""><br class="">[*] Is that the name of the person using <br class="">osm.talk-au@thorsten.engler.id.au? You don't appear to have used a <br class="">name in your email so I'm guessing based on your email domain, but as <br class="">domains often get used by multiple people there is no guarantee that <br class="">I'm right.<br class=""><br class="">Regards,<br class="">Kim<br class=""></blockquote><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Talk-au mailing list<br class="">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org<br class="">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Talk-au mailing list<br class="">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org<br class="">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au<br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></body></html>