<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">These are the results of some Mapilliary
browsing cycleways/shared paths adjacent to primary roads in and around Greater
Dandenong where Sebastian / HighRouleur removed bicycle access (converted
to footpath or bicycle=no). Each of these has visible shared cycling path
signs on Mapilliary. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I entered changeset
comments earlier on Hallam Road way 31659577 below after a tag change yesterday.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:11pt">I have not put all of these against the remainder of his
changesets.</span><br></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Regards</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Matthew</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Hallam Road from Pound Rd to Ormond Rd</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/736809442/history" style="color:blue">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/736809442/history</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=312660870443397" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=312660870443397</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=895599964330562" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=895599964330562</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=1410241922644656" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=1410241922644656</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=205753421362506" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=205753421362506</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=508544383674853" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=508544383674853</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/31659577/history" style="color:blue">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/31659577/history</a>
(already commented on changeset 11203682)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=144954007603964" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=144954007603964</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=2031215400361053" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=2031215400361053</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=851076202144993" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=851076202144993</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=497400694795407" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=497400694795407</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=566530107645541" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=566530107645541</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=1410241922644656" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=1410241922644656</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cranbourne Rd from Centre Rd to Greaves
Rd</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Southbound</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/43974586/history" style="color:blue">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/43974586/history</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=1125882161173090" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=1125882161173090</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=4044452288977189" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=4044452288977189</a>
(shared path signage just visible)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Greaves Rd from The Avenue to Cranbourne
Road</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/51792707/history" style="color:blue">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/51792707/history</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=957912521623904" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=957912521623904</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=734196640529461" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=734196640529461</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=732457320763410" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=732457320763410</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Ernst Wanke Rd from Parkhill Drive to
Narre Warren Rd North</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/74268817/history" style="color:blue">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/74268817/history</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=585890135726372" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=585890135726372</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=1631883537013186" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=1631883537013186</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Narre Warrern North Rd from Monash
Freeway to Princes Hwy southbound</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/114377605/history" style="color:blue">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/114377605/history</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=2655642424738245" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=2655642424738245</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=201983328212269" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=201983328212269</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=609180500479076" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=609180500479076</a>
(maybe – blurred/angled view of shared path sign)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Thompsons Road – Merinda Park railway
bridge LXRP</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/659812851/history" style="color:blue">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/659812851/history</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/659812850/history" style="color:blue">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/659812850/history</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/320636187/history" style="color:blue">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/320636187/history</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/687251657/history" style="color:blue">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/687251657/history</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/687251655/history" style="color:blue">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/687251655/history</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLHIolV0d08" style="color:blue">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLHIolV0d08</a>
(LXRP Youtube overview from the OMS source tag on several of those cyclepaths)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=314224830110424" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=314224830110424</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=297352711968846" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=297352711968846</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=504431641001656" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=504431641001656</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=198251272127970" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=198251272127970</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Thomspons Rd from South Gippsland Hwy to
Narre Warren Rd</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/839517705/history" style="color:blue">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/839517705/history</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=490841682271128" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=490841682271128</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=500638321126014" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=500638321126014</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Hammond Rd from Dandenong Bypass to
Webster St</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/807140065/history" style="color:blue">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/807140065/history</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=196724275601939" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=196724275601939</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=2871075936555149" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=2871075936555149</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=146143874152929" style="color:blue">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=146143874152929</a></p></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 7:20 PM Sebastian Azagra Flores via Talk-au <<a href="mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org">talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">I don’t think we should blame routing software, if there is fundamental issue in the data set it uses to undertake the routing.<div>In my experience, where paths are correctly tagged, the routing software will not venture onto paths where the permissions do not permit it. For the majority of instances, there aren’t any issues.</div><div><br></div><div>In some instances, the footpaths are set to bicycle=yes which is in correct. I have ventured out on the bike to verify that there was a sign to allow bicycles but to no avail.</div><div><br></div><div><div><br></div><div><br><div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br><br><br></div>
</div>
<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 3 Oct 2021, at 6:07 pm, <a href="mailto:osm.talk-au@thorsten.engler.id.au" target="_blank">osm.talk-au@thorsten.engler.id.au</a> wrote:</div><br><div><div>This really is all already covered under:<br><br><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Verifiability" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Verifiability</a><br><br>and <br><br><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Don.27t_map_for_the_render" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Don.27t_map_for_the_render</a><br>er<br><br>(which should also apply to "don't map for the [broken] router").<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href="mailto:forster@ozonline.com.au" target="_blank">forster@ozonline.com.au</a> <<a href="mailto:forster@ozonline.com.au" target="_blank">forster@ozonline.com.au</a>> <br>Sent: Sunday, 3 October 2021 16:34<br>To: Kim Oldfield <<a href="mailto:osm@oldfield.wattle.id.au" target="_blank">osm@oldfield.wattle.id.au</a>>; Kim Oldfield via Talk-au<br><<a href="mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [talk-au] Cycling on Victorian paths<br><br>Hi all<br><br>I am thinking that unless we pay a lawyer and get a legal opinion we will<br>never be sure what the law is.<br><br>Given that uncertainty we have two principles to choose from, I'll call them<br>the "precautionary principle" and the "somebody else's problem" principle.<br>(Maybe better called the ground truth principle.)<br><br>I hope this does not misrepresent anybody's position but I think Sebastian<br>Azagra would say that we have a moral responsibility to protect people from<br>the risk of getting a large fine.<br><br>I and others have argued that we OSM should stop at recording what is on the<br>ground and leave the difficult legal interpretation to map renderers.<br><br>Not sure how we arrive at a resolution.<br><br>Tony<br><br><blockquote type="cite">On 3/10/21 9:13 am, Sebastian Azagra via Talk-au wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">In my view, some of the data in OSM is incorrect as a footpath will <br> some times have permission bicycle=yes which is incorrect. The <br>majority of the time allowed access will have bicycle=unspecified <br>(not defined)which I think is fine.<br>The issue is that cycling software, apps and gps units used by <br>cyclist takes information from OSM and then creates a route based <br>on the permission assigned to the road/path in OSM.<br></blockquote><br>In Victoria cycling is not allowed on most footpaths (for most adults).<br>The is defined in the wiki at<br><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access_restri" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access_restri</a><br>ctions#Australia and more formally in OSM at <br><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2316741" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2316741</a><br><br>As far as I'm concerned, routing software should be using these as <br>part of the decision on when to route bikes down footpaths. Any <br>software which ignores these should be have a bug report logged. We <br>should not tag all footpaths with bicycle=no just for software which <br>doesn't understand the defaults already configured in OSM.<br><br>It looks like Thosten Engler[*] has just said the same thing.<br><br>[*] Is that the name of the person using <br><a href="mailto:osm.talk-au@thorsten.engler.id.au" target="_blank">osm.talk-au@thorsten.engler.id.au</a>? You don't appear to have used a <br>name in your email so I'm guessing based on your email domain, but as <br>domains often get used by multiple people there is no guarantee that <br>I'm right.<br><br>Regards,<br>Kim<br></blockquote><br><br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Talk-au mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au</a><br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Talk-au mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au</a><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div></div>