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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/10/21 2:57 pm, Sebastian Azagra
Flores via Talk-au wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:78014BFC-714B-48E9-A0B2-FEAB48E9899B@me.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
I was referring to working within OSM and seeing brown dotted vs
blue dotted lines for a path. <br>
</blockquote>
<p>Pardon. But OSM is a data base, not really a map. <br>
</p>
<p>The "default OSM map" is a guide as to what a map might look like
to be used by mappers to check their work in a basic way. <br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:78014BFC-714B-48E9-A0B2-FEAB48E9899B@me.com">
<div>If you see a blue shared paths in OSM then you know that that
bikes are allowed by default , however if a footpath allows
bicycles then you would need to see the tags associated with it
to know the permissions. <br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Seeing the tags .. not really meant to be 'seen' in a text format
on a 'real map'. Other than certain specific tags which might be
'seen' (such as description=* and others). <br>
</p>
<p>Map makers take the OSM data to make maps (rendering them), they
can chose what and how they render. <br>
</p>
<p>Does that help?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:78014BFC-714B-48E9-A0B2-FEAB48E9899B@me.com">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On 5 Oct 2021, at 2:37 pm, Adam Horan
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ahoran@gmail.com"><ahoran@gmail.com></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Ah well I don't see much
difference between =yes and =designated, but
to others there's a clear difference. 😊
<div>Given the other responses it seems that
=designated is the preference for shared
paths.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As for <i>"Visually it’s much easier to
see a shared path rather than to review
the tags for permissions. "</i></div>
<div>This is 'tagging for the renderer' which
is discouraged. As mappers our aim is to
accurately map what's on the ground using
legitimate sources of data, and following
agreed OSM conventions as much as possible. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Getting the right coloured dashed or
dotted line on the map is someone else's
problem.</div>
<div>People produce special purpose maps with
this in mind eg.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>OSM default</b>: <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-38.07459/145.12193"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-38.07459/145.12193</a><br>
</div>
<div><b>CycleOSM</b>: <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-38.07459/145.12193&layers=Y"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-38.07459/145.12193&layers=Y</a>
<b>(Bicycle routes emphasised)</b><br>
</div>
<div><b>Cycle Map</b>: <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-38.07459/145.12193&layers=C"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-38.07459/145.12193&layers=C</a>
<b>(Bicycle routes emphasised)</b></div>
<div><b>Transport Map</b>: <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-38.07459/145.12193&layers=T"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-38.07459/145.12193&layers=T</a>
<b>(Public transport emphasised)</b></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Adam</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 5 Oct 2021 at
14:26, Sebastian Azagra Flores <<a
href="mailto:s.azagra@me.com" moz-do-not-send="true">s.azagra@me.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">Hi Adam
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Interesting to see your thoughts below in
relation to Victoria. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My point all along has been bikes are not
permitted on footy paths used signed as allowed or
should it be a shared path instead?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In which case is there a preference in using
footpath with the tags highway=footway +
bicycles=yes as you have indicated below</div>
<div>or a should be be shared path where
bikes=designated ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Visually it’s much easier to see a shared path
rather than to review the tags for permissions. <br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">regards,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sebastian </div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On 5 Oct 2021, at 10:28
am, Adam Horan <<a
href="mailto:ahoran@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ahoran@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Kim,
<div>highway = pedestrian is for
pedestrianised roads/areas rather then
footpaths/sidewalks/pavements for those I
think the current tag is highway=footway.</div>
<div>bridleway isn't in use in Australia
much for the path types we're discussing
here.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd prefer a normal footpath to be</div>
<div>highway=footway - and no additional
bicycle= or foot= tag, unless there's a
sign specifically barring cycling in which
case bicycle=no</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Shared paths (the most common ones
after a walking only path)</div>
<div>either</div>
<div>highway=footway + bicycle=yes (I prefer
this one)</div>
<div>or<br>
</div>
<div>highway=cycleway and a foot=yes tag to
make it clear (I don't prefer this one,
but it's a mild preference)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is mostly with a VIC perspective.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Adam</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 4
Oct 2021 at 23:48, Kim Oldfield via Talk-au
<<a
href="mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> Hi Andrew and list,<br>
<br>
How do we go about formalising these
decisions? Is there a vote process, or
does someone take it upon themselves to
document in the wiki any consensus we
reach on this list?<br>
<br>
We should document in the wiki when to add
bicycle= and foot= tags which duplicate
the default values for
highway=footway/cycleway? (As per Andrew's
email below).<br>
<br>
We should also decide on, and document the
default access rules for various highway=
values at
<a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access_restrictions#Australia"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access_restrictions#Australia</a>
and remove the "Not endorsed by the
Australian OSM community (yet)." Currently
these are mostly the same as "Wordwide",
except:<br>
<br>
highway=pedestrian - bicycle=yes. Sounds
reasonable.<br>
highway=bridleway - bicycle=yes, foot=yes.
I don't know enough about bridleways in
Australia to have an opinion on this.<br>
highway=footway - currently bicycle=yes.
This I think should be broken up by state
to reflect the state laws for adults
riding on the footway. In Victoria and
NSW: bicycle=no. Is Queensland
bicycle=yes? What about the other states?<br>
These decisions should be replicated in
the Australia or state relations with
def:... tags so they can be found and used
by routing engines.<br>
<br>
<div>On 4/10/21 10:14 pm, Andrew Harvey
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>With my DWG hat on, to summarise
it looks like Graeme, Tony,
Thorsten, Kim all advocate for not
blanket tagging bicycle=no to every
normal footpath (for the record I
also support this, an
explicit bicycle=no can still be
tagged where signage is indicating
such). Matthew has pointed out cases
where Sebastian / HighRouleur has
added bicycle=no but Mapillary shows
bicycle markings. Sebastian, unless
all of this you've actually surveyed
in person and confirmed that the
situation has change recently (happy
to be proven if this is the case,
though I think it unlikely) then we
should proceed to roll back your
changes because it's evident it goes
against the community wishes here
and the bulk changes have brought in
these errors.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sebastian, thanks for joining our
mailing list and engaging with this
discussion, but due to the
consensus indicated here would you
be willing to work through and
revert these changes you've made?</div>
</div>
<br>
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