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A bit late to the party on this one. But a couple of observations
follow up Graeme's 2012-10-03 point about the myriad of "You can
ride on a footpath if" exceptions and how to deal with them.<br>
<br>
1) I suggest rigorously using and making synonymous footway=sidewalk
[1] with what are clearly and unambivalently "road-related" areas in
VIC [2] and NSW, i.e. generally urban footways that clearly (mostly)
parallel a vehicular road with/without a nature strip and don't have
any cycle signage. That throws the problem of exceptions on to
router software, which I think is the right approach.<br>
<br>
Perhaps emphasise this relationship in:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Urban_Footpaths_and_Cycleways">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Urban_Footpaths_and_Cycleways</a><br>
<br>
2) However, this does create an un-level router playing field
favouring the big boys. Sarah Hoffman raised the general issue at
SOTM in her talk:<br>
<br>
2021: Boundaries, Places and the Future of Tagging<br>
Sarah Hoffman (keeper of Nominatum)<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAzljx1ewZ0&list=PLQNy8KsDknCoq3AkVd5Nlgtwp1fnAWOcn&index=16">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAzljx1ewZ0&list=PLQNy8KsDknCoq3AkVd5Nlgtwp1fnAWOcn&index=16</a><br>
<br>
While she is talking about geocoding and all its local variations,
her general point is that there is a layer of cultural and
regulatory metadata which is missing from OpenStreetMap. This allows
larger corporations to provide this and potentially "take over"
OpenStreetMap by simply being able to offer a much better
use-experience than the rest of us can by refining their software to
take into account local needs. I am currently tasked along with Andy
Allan of look at take over risks to the OpenStreetMap Foundation and
will be adding this. <br>
<br>
What I personally think we need is a completely separate open
data-set that sets out to capture all this information basically on
the premise "If you are in this polygon, then these rules apply" for
language, access, addressing, whatever. It currently remains an I'd
like to do this if I had time project, but if anyone is interested
in working with me on it, let me know.<br>
<br>
Mike<br>
<br>
[1] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:footway%3Dsidewalk">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:footway%3Dsidewalk</a> <br>
<br>
<br>
[2] Matthew Seale 2021-10-03:<br>
"<br>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">The full version of the
Victorian Road rules can be found here (or via the link from the
VicRoads website)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
href="https://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/in-force/statutory-rules/road-safety-road-rules-2017/014H">https://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/in-force/statutory-rules/road-safety-road-rules-2017/014H</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">As noted in an earlier
comment on this forum the Vic road rules apply in roads and road
related areas – see rules 11-13. Footpaths and nature strips
adjacent to roads are considered a road related areas and are
subject to the footpath cycling restrictions in those areas.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<span lang="EN-GB">However there does not appear to be any provision
in the Victorian Road Rules that I can find to extend Victorian
road rules to all unmarked (I.e. the vast majority) off-road and
unsealed paths in Victoria away from roads. "<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2021-10-03 07:08, Thorsten Engler
via Talk-au wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:095101d7b814$a94e32d0$fbea9870$@thorsten.engler.id.au">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Ah,
I now see there are subtle differences in the definition of
“road related area” in Victoria and NSW… <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">While
the NSW rules, as written, expand the definition of “road
related area” to any public space which has as it’s primary
purpose use by pedestrians, the Victoria rules do not seem
to do that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Though
the Victoria version of the road rules includes this:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">a
place that is a road by virtue of a declaration under
section 3(2)(a) of the Road Safety Act 1986<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">and
if you follow that rabbit hole all the way down, you get to:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">(2)
The Governor in Council may by Order published in the
Government Gazette- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> (a)
declare any place or class of places, whether open to
vehicles or not, to be or not to be a road or roads or a
road related area or road related areas for the purposes of
this Act;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Which
means that to actually figure out what is a road or road
related area in Victoria, someone will have to do an
exhaustive search of the Government Gazette.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> Matthew Seale <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mseale1@iinet.net.au"><mseale1@iinet.net.au></a>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 3 October 2021 14:18<br>
<b>To:</b> Sebastian Azagra <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:s.azagra@me.com"><s.azagra@me.com></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org">talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [talk-au] Cycling on Victorian paths<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">The full version of the
Victorian Road rules can be found here (or via the link from
the VicRoads website)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><a
href="https://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/in-force/statutory-rules/road-safety-road-rules-2017/014H"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/in-force/statutory-rules/road-safety-road-rules-2017/014H</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">As noted in an earlier
comment on this forum the Vic road rules apply in roads and
road related areas – see rules 11-13. Footpaths and nature
strips adjacent to roads are considered a road related areas
and are subject to the footpath cycling restrictions in
those areas.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">However there does not
appear to be any provision in the Victorian Road Rules that
I can find to extend Victorian road rules to all unmarked
(I.e. the vast majority) off-road and unsealed paths in
Victoria away from roads. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Talk-au mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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