<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink="#954F72" style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Hi, </p><p class=MsoNormal> I found the page somewhat difficult to understand the logic of frontage road by tagging it with nothing. It was a bit about face compared to other pages.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>If Frontage Roads can be the whole gamut of road types (residential, service, unclassified etc.) then perhaps frontage_road=yes would be a preferable solution however I don’t see much to datamine with this element. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Whilst a lot of Frontage Roads are easy to identify along dual carriageways, this may be more difficult at a more granular level. </p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0cm'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:osm.talk-au@thorsten.engler.id.au">osm.talk-au@thorsten.engler.id.au</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, 23 November 2021 11:55 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org">talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [talk-au] Service Roads?</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The point of that link was that most of them aren’t highway=service to start with, so service=* wouldn’t apply to most of them.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> Andrew Hughes <ahhughes@gmail.com> <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 23 November 2021 08:55<br><b>To:</b> Dian Ågesson <me@diacritic.xyz><br><b>Cc:</b> OSM Australian Talk List <talk-au@openstreetmap.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [talk-au] Service Roads?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks All,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Graeme: naming might help, but I am not sure if they would conflict with an official signposted name.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dian: Interesting with the "frontage road". Yes, that is suitable but the tagging guidelines do not have anything unique about these roads. They are simply the standard (non _link) highway=* tags. Perhaps "service"="frontage road" would help, but I don't know if this would collide with other conventions.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks all!<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 at 22:13, Dian Ågesson <<a href="mailto:me@diacritic.xyz">me@diacritic.xyz</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Hi Andrew,</span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>From your description in example A, it sounds like you are describing frontage roads (what we would call service roads in Australia). Rather confusingly, the service tag isn’t the best tag for these roads; <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Frontage_road">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Frontage_road</a> has a good explanation.</span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Dian</span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>On 2021-11-19 15:56, Andrew Hughes wrote:</span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 5.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div id="gmail-m_-6031633339171115320replybody1"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Hi Again, </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>With regards to service roads. I would like to know if there is a tagging convention that would provide a distinction between roads that appear to all fall under highway=service for the following examples:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Example A: This is what is referred to "traditionally" as a "service road" (outside the OSM world that is). I'd describe it as,a minor road that is associated with a major road, it runs parallel to its major road counterpart and gives general access to the local area so that the major road is occupied by traffic that does not want to stop in the local area <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/118171809">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/118171809</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Example B: A way (perhaps even a driveway or parking_isle?) that provides access to a carpark. It's not really paired with a major road and is not designed to "split" the local traffic from traffic passing through as per A <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/28262128">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/28262128</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>The main difference I feel between A and B is that A is really part of a major/bigger arterial way and services the local needs that the arterial way will not. B is not really a thoroughfare and is more in line with the "destination" rather than a thoroughfare. You only use the B way to access the carpark(s). Someone else might have a better interpretation however I do feel like on the ground they are very different roads and tagging with highway=services alone doesn't reflect that.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Thanks in advance,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Andrew</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>_______________________________________________<br>Talk-au mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>