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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Graeme,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The two systems are not 100% directly relatable because they are designed for very different purposes. One is essentially for promotional purposes and the other has legal ramifications for safety, infrastructure construction. Only two aspects of the standard are benchmarked to the AWTGS.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Here is another opinion (and policy) using the various Tasmanian track ‘systems’ (including the Australian and the AS2156) and how they are applied in different ways.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><a href="https://parks.tas.gov.au/Documents/Walking_Track_Classification_Policy_.pdf">https://parks.tas.gov.au/Documents/Walking_Track_Classification_Policy_.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The Australian system is used in Tasmania but primarily on ‘tourist tracks brochures’<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>It may bring up an issue as AS2156 Class 6 tracks (and hence some Class 5 in the AWTGS) in Tasmania are not on printed maps (however they are supplied to emergency services). Most are simply ‘known routes to peak X or Y’ where on the ground definition will be sparse or non existent. Parks Tas also has a class of tracks even lower than AS2156 class 6.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I agree that for the average punter/tourist the Australian Walking Track Classification is the ‘simplest to understand in plain language’. Now can we benchmark that against the sac_scale?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Cheers - Phil<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> Graeme Fitzpatrick <graemefitz1@gmail.com> <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 28 January 2022 5:30 PM<br><b>To:</b> Michael Collinson <mike@ayeltd.biz><br><b>Cc:</b> OSM-Au <talk-au@openstreetmap.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [talk-au] sac_scale [Was: Deletion of walking tracks/paths]<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Just doing some looking & spotted:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://qorf-media.s3.ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/11153757/TrackGradingSystem_UserGuide.pdf">https://qorf-media.s3.ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/11153757/TrackGradingSystem_UserGuide.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>which includes<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmail-markedcontent><span style='font-size:15.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Glossary</span></span><br><span class=gmail-markedcontent><span style='font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>AS 2156.1-2001 Walking Tracks - Classification and Signage</span></span><br><span class=gmail-markedcontent><span style='font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>The Australian Walking Track Grading System benchmarks to AS 2156.1-2001.</span></span><br><span class=gmail-markedcontent><span style='font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>A Grade 1 walk corresponds to AS 2165.1 Class 1 track</span></span><br><span class=gmail-markedcontent><span style='font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>A Grade 2 walk corresponds to AS 2165.1 Class 2 track</span></span><br><span class=gmail-markedcontent><span style='font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>A Grade 3 walk corresponds to AS 2165.1 Class 3 track</span></span><br><span class=gmail-markedcontent><span style='font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>A Grade 4 walk corresponds to AS 2165.1 Class 4 track</span></span><br><span class=gmail-markedcontent><b><span style='font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>A Grade 5 walk corresponds to AS 2165.1 Class 5 and 6 track</span></b></span> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>So it appears there may only be 5 levels?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Would make sense as Grade 5 refers to multi-day, long-distance, remote-area walks!<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Another slightly different, & possibly a bit clearer version:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.trailhiking.com.au/preparing-to-hike/track-grading/">https://www.trailhiking.com.au/preparing-to-hike/track-grading/</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Graeme<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 at 16:22, Michael Collinson <<a href="mailto:mike@ayeltd.biz">mike@ayeltd.biz</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><p>Ian,<o:p></o:p></p><p><span lang=EN-US>+1. The AWTGS </span>looks excellent as it works from an international perspective. I've also struggled with the SAC scale in the UK and Sweden, also both countries where the bulk of rural footpaths are barely "alpine" and also came to the conclusion that what matters is the type of people wanting to use the path rather than specific physical attributes of the path. And particularly at the less hardcore end. If one substitutes "hiking" for "bushwalking", it works in those countries as well, IMHO.<o:p></o:p></p><p>The categories I've played with conceptually are:<o:p></o:p></p><p>- I could take my very elderly mother<o:p></o:p></p><p>- Suitable for inexperienced walkers in everyday footwear (which could include high heels). Less charitably: City folks stroll.<o:p></o:p></p><p>- Could I get a push-chair/stroller down here? (and by extension assisted wheel-chair)<o:p></o:p></p><p>- I'm fine with walking but don't want to be using my arms, (balance, holding-on, hauling myself up).<o:p></o:p></p><p>- I'm fine with scrambling but don't take me anywhere where I'll be nervous about falling off.<o:p></o:p></p><p>- Bring it on<o:p></o:p></p><p><o:p> </o:p></p><p>I think the system satisfies the above in a nice linear fashion without too many categories. I'd be interested to know what the mysterious <span lang=EN-US>AS 2156.1-2001 </span>6th one is. Copied from the URL provided:<o:p></o:p></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Grade One is suitable for people with a disability with assistance<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Grade Two is suitable for families with young children<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Grade Three is recommended for people with some bushwalking experience<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Grade Four is recommended for experienced bushwalkers, and<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Grade Five is recommended for very experienced bushwalkers<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p>Mike<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 2022-01-28 16:41, <a href="mailto:iansteer@iinet.net.au" target="_blank">iansteer@iinet.net.au</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>I think we should be considering the Australian Walking Track Grading System. It seems to have been defined by the Victorians (Forest Fire Management - <a href="https://www.ffm.vic.gov.au/recreational-activities/walking-and-camping/australian-walking-track-grading-system" target="_blank">https://www.ffm.vic.gov.au/recreational-activities/walking-and-camping/australian-walking-track-grading-system</a>). The AWTGS defines 5 track grades.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>It appears to have been adopted by National Parks here in WA, NT, SA, QLD and NSW, and Bush Walking Australia.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>I have tagged a few tracks (where there were officially signed with a “Class”) as “awtgs=” (however someone in Germany has since deleted those tags without reference to me!)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Australian Standard AS 2156.1-2001 is titled “Walking Tracks, Part 1: Classification and signage”. However, I don’t have a subscription to read the contents of this standard to see how it compares with the AWTGS. Other documentation I have seen refers to the AS scheme as having 6 levels</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US>Ian</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Talk-au mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Talk-au mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></body></html>