<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Thanks<div><br></div><div>Graeme</div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 at 13:20, Andrew Harvey <<a href="mailto:andrew.harvey4@gmail.com" target="_blank">andrew.harvey4@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>2. Does the AWTGS system apply more to routes than way segments? For example a longer route loop might have a higher grade than a shorter loop even if they overlap for parts. Would you then only apply AWTGS on a route=hiking relation, or do you also tag on each way but only set the higher grade to the parts of the walk which go beyond the easier shorter sections (based on the example)?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Threads have crossed :-(, but as per their instructions that I mentioned in the other post, the track overall is tagged to the highest classification, so per the example they give:</div><div><br></div><div>
<span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid0"><span style="font-size:23.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Example: Wineglass Bay, Tasmania</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent"></span><span class="gmail-markedContent"></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid1"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">The technical assessment of the Wineglass Bay Lookout</span> <span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Walk is then translated into plain English. NOTE: Time</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">is the land manager’s best estimate of the amount</span> <span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">of time a person of average fitness, walking in good</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid2"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">conditions, will take to complete the walk. Time does </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">not describe difficulty. Because this is a Grade 3 walk</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">a high/low estimate is not required</span></span> </div><div><br></div><div>
<span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid4"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Grade 1</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid5"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">   </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Grade 2</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid6"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">  </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Grade 3</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid7"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Grade 4</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid8"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Grade 5</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid9"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Symbol</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid10"></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid11"></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid12"></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid13"></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid14"></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid15"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Distance</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid16"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Distance to</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid17"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Distance to</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid18"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Distance to</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid19"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Distance to</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid20"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Distance to</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid21"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">complete walk</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">is 2.4km.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid22"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">complete walk.</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">xx km</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid23"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">complete walk.</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">xx km</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid24"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">complete walk.</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">xx km</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid25"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">complete walk.</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">xx km</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid26"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Gradient</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid27"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Flat.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid28"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Gentle hills.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid29"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Short steep hills.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid30"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Very steep.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid31"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Very steep</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">and difficult.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid32"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Quality</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">of path</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid33"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Well formed</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">track.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid34"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Formed track.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid35"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Formed track,</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">some obstacles.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid36"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Rough track,</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">many obstacles.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid37"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Rough unformed</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">track.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid38"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Quality of</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">markings</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid39"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Clearly sign</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">posted.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid40"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Clearly sign</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">posted.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid41"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Sign posted.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid42"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Limited signage.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid43"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">No directional</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">signage.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid44"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Experience</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Required</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid45"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">No experience</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">required.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid46"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">No experience</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">required.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid47"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Some</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">bushwalking</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">experience</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">recommended.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid48"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Experienced</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Bushwalkers.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid49"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Very experienced</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">bushwalkers.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid50"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Time</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid51"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">High and low</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">estimate of</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">time needed to</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">complete track</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">(eg 1.5-2hrs).</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid52"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">High and low</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">estimate of</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">time needed to</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">complete track</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">(eg 1.5-2hrs).</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid53"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Time needed to</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">complete track</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">(hours/days)</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">1.5hrs.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid54"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Time needed to</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">complete track</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">(hours/days).</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid55"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Time needed to</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">complete track</span><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">(hours/days).</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid56"><br role="presentation"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Steps</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid57"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">No steps.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid58"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Occasional steps.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid59"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">Many steps.</span></span><span class="gmail-markedContent" id="gmail-page91R_mcid60"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span><span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:sans-serif" role="presentation" dir="ltr">N</span></span>

</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>The main reason I don't like the AWTGS is because it conflates independent measures like surface, gradient, distance, navigational difficulty, remoteness/preparedness. I think the ideally tagging system would tag these attributes independently and then you could automatically calculate an overall grade based on the highest value.</div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 at 16:45, <<a href="mailto:iansteer@iinet.net.au" target="_blank">iansteer@iinet.net.au</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-AU"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I think we should be considering the Australian Walking Track Grading System.  It seems to have been defined by the Victorians (Forest Fire Management - <a href="https://www.ffm.vic.gov.au/recreational-activities/walking-and-camping/australian-walking-track-grading-system" target="_blank">https://www.ffm.vic.gov.au/recreational-activities/walking-and-camping/australian-walking-track-grading-system</a>).  The AWTGS defines 5 track grades.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">It appears to have been adopted by National Parks here in WA, NT, SA, QLD and NSW, and Bush Walking Australia.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I have tagged a few tracks (where there were officially signed with a “Class”) as “awtgs=” (however someone in Germany has since deleted those tags without reference to me!)<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Australian Standard AS 2156.1-2001 is titled “Walking Tracks, Part 1: Classification and signage”.  However, I don’t have a subscription to read the contents of this standard to see how it compares with the AWTGS.  Other documentation I have seen refers to the AS scheme as having 6 levels<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Ian<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
Talk-au mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Talk-au mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>