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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Thorsten,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Many thanks for that detailed explanation. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Sounds like your request is to at least update the footway/bicycle restrictions in <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access_restrictions#Australia">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access_restrictions#Australia</a> to at least what is listed in the state relations, even though this has not been ‘endorsed’ by the community in any process (but appears to be the legal status of bikes on footpaths?), and may not be used by data consumers. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>…. and then work on getting the def:syntax incorporated as defaults into the database somehow?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I am happy to edit that wiki, with community guidance, to at least show what is in the relations def:’s if that is acceptable. I also note other countries have notes in respect of some restrictions so if folks have links to relevant material I don’t think it hurts to add them.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Cheers - Phil<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> osm.talk-au@thorsten.engler.id.au <osm.talk-au@thorsten.engler.id.au> <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 2 February 2022 11:13 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'OSM-Au' <talk-au@openstreetmap.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [talk-au] Path versus Footway<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Tasmania: </span><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2369652"><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2369652</span></a><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><br><br>There seems to be only a single default key defined for Tasmania currently:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>"def:highway=footway;access:bicycle"=yes<br><br>There are no default values defined on Australia: </span><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/80500"><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/80500</span></a><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Now, it’s worth pointing out that the proposal that this tagging scheme is based on:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Defaults"><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Defaults</span></a><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=a><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Never went through RFC or voting<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Envisions that the def tags are placed on a separate type=defaults relation which is then a member of role defaults of the boundary relation, instead of being applied directly to the boundary relation as we have done.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>As such it is exceedingly unlikely that any type of data consumer is actually using them.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Nonetheless, that proposal represents the only attempt I’m aware of to actually define defaults inside the OSM database instead of simply throwing your hands up in the air and shout “Who knows? Whatever..”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>So really, in reality, defaults are whatever the developer of every single data consumer decided.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Our choices come down to:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>a) Just shrug and let all data consumers and mappers make up their mind on their own<br>b) At least attempt to somehow write down on the wiki what defaults mappers should assume, and data consumers hopefully accept<br>c) use (and extend use of) that somewhat unwieldy def: syntax to make our wishes in regards to defaults explicit in the database. It would at least allow us to point to it and say “see, we explicitly and in a machine readable form recorded our assumed defaults,” if any data consumer asks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>For the other states and territories, currently defined defaults are:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>SA: </span><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2316596"><span lang=DE style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2316596</span></a><span lang=DE style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>"def:highway=footway;access:bicycle"=yes<br><br>WA: </span><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2316598"><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2316598</span></a><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>"def:highway=footway;access:bicycle"=yes<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>NT: </span><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2316594"><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2316594</span></a><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>"def:highway=footway;access:bicycle"=yes<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Qld: </span><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2316595"><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2316595</span></a><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>"def:highway=footway;access:bicycle"=yes<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>NSW: </span><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2316593"><span lang=DE style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2316593</span></a><span lang=DE style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>"def:highway=footway;access:bicycle"=no<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>"def:highway=living_street;maxspeed"=10<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>"def:highway=residential;maxspeed"=50<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Vic: </span><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2316741"><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2316741</span></a><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>"def:highway=footway;access:bicycle"=no<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>ACT: </span><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2354197"><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2354197</span></a><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>"def:highway=footway;access:bicycle"=yes<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#212529'>Jervis Bay Territory: </span><a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2357330"><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2357330</span></a><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><br><br>none<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> Phil Wyatt <</span><a href="mailto:phil@wyatt-family.com"><span lang=EN-US>phil@wyatt-family.com</span></a><span lang=EN-US>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 2 February 2022 20:46<br><b>To:</b> </span><a href="mailto:osm.talk-au@thorsten.engler.id.au"><span lang=EN-US>osm.talk-au@thorsten.engler.id.au</span></a><span lang=EN-US>; 'OSM-Au' <</span><a href="mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org"><span lang=EN-US>talk-au@openstreetmap.org</span></a><span lang=EN-US>><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [talk-au] Path versus Footway<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Thorsten,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Is there somewhere to view those defaults for Tasmania? I assume its not usually editable by mappers?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Cheers - Phil<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> </span><a href="mailto:osm.talk-au@thorsten.engler.id.au"><span lang=EN-US>osm.talk-au@thorsten.engler.id.au</span></a><span lang=EN-US> <</span><a href="mailto:osm.talk-au@thorsten.engler.id.au"><span lang=EN-US>osm.talk-au@thorsten.engler.id.au</span></a><span lang=EN-US>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 2 February 2022 9:00 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'OSM-Au' <</span><a href="mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org"><span lang=EN-US>talk-au@openstreetmap.org</span></a><span lang=EN-US>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [talk-au] Path versus Footway<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>That table is just the suggested defaults.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>We actually have default values specified on the state boundaries currently I think using the format specified here: </span><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Defaults"><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Defaults</span></a><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> I think.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Any use of explicit access tags will override defaults.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>There isn’t really a fully accepted way used by all data consumers to specify defaults in OSM currently.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>So at the end, it really comes down to whatever defaults any particular data consumer applies.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>As long as you explicitly tag access, any type of path, foot/cycle/bridle-way can be made to reflect whatever you want.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> Graeme Fitzpatrick <</span><a href="mailto:graemefitz1@gmail.com"><span lang=EN-US>graemefitz1@gmail.com</span></a><span lang=EN-US>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 2 February 2022 17:32<br><b>To:</b> Phil Wyatt <</span><a href="mailto:phil@wyatt-family.com"><span lang=EN-US>phil@wyatt-family.com</span></a><span lang=EN-US>><br><b>Cc:</b> </span><a href="mailto:osm.talk-au@thorsten.engler.id.au"><span lang=EN-US>osm.talk-au@thorsten.engler.id.au</span></a><span lang=EN-US>; OSM-Au <</span><a href="mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org"><span lang=EN-US>talk-au@openstreetmap.org</span></a><span lang=EN-US>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [talk-au] Path versus Footway<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 at 17:24, Phil Wyatt <<a href="mailto:phil@wyatt-family.com">phil@wyatt-family.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>So reading from that chart and in regard to my query about ‘tracks that are exclusively for foot traffic’ you would say it can ONLY be a footway?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>By that list, yes?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Graeme<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>