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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 23/4/22 11:22, Graeme Fitzpatrick
wrote:<br>
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<div>Thanks all!</div>
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<div>Yeah, the various wiki comments re size as always are very
European & don't suit Oz conditions.</div>
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<div>I think that place=farm + name=* seems to be the way to go,
so I'll test that & see how it works?</div>
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<div>One of the factors in OP making them hamlets could have
been that that will render, so will have to see if =farm does
as well?</div>
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<p>I think farm does render on the standard map. See Node: Mundi
Mundi (2648982062) for farm and Way: Mundi Mundi (259480275) for
homestead. <br>
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<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2648982062#map=17/-31.88185/141.04014">https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2648982062#map=17/-31.88185/141.04014</a><br>
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<div dir="ltr">Thanks
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<div>Graeme</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 18:39,
cleary <<a href="mailto:osm@97k.com" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">osm@97k.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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Generally, I would suggest a node at the hub of the farm
(usually in the vicinity of the main residence)<br>
place=farm<br>
name=*<br>
operator=* <br>
<br>
In regard to farm boundaries, I think it has been OSM practice
not to map lot/property boundaries. <br>
<br>
Most farms today don't employ many people and employees
frequently live in nearby towns etc. so place=farm is
appropriate. In more isolated areas, some very large farms
may still accommodate workers and sometimes their families -
in such cases place=isolated_dwelling might be appropriate as
I think it implies a larger population than a farm. I'd
suggest that it has many years since Australian farms had
enough residents to be considered as hamlets. In fact,
increasingly farms have no residents. In some cases multiple
farms are operated from a single homestead but, if each farm
is separately named, I think each should still be separately
mapped. Farms with animals such as dairy cattle or poultry etc
may need people on site overnight but grazing cattle and crops
such as cotton/wheat/rice etc may not need people in the
immediate vicinity - and security cameras and alarms are
increasingly used so that people can go to off-farm homes at
night. The "homestead" may become an administrative office
plus staff facilities when there is no-one resident on the
property. <br>
<br>
In some cases, where public roads go through farms (usually
cattle grids and signs at the respective boundaries), I have
added is_in:farm=* on the section of road that is within the
particular farm, but the "is_in" tag seems now less used than
in the past. Perhaps there is a case for mapping lot/property
boundaries where the properties are very large farms but I
will leave that for others to advocate. In South Australia's
pastoral district, each farm has its own "suburb" boundaries
in the official government suburb/locality database - but I am
not aware of any farm boundaries designated in this way in any
other state.<br>
<br>
<br>
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On Fri, 22 Apr 2022, at 3:27 PM, Bob Cameron wrote:<br>
> Remote areas and larger farms generally have been
troubling me too <br>
> Graeme. I make no distinction about numbers of people,
just a <br>
> landuse=farm node. (so I copied a very prolific mapper!)
Recently I <br>
> noted that landuse:farm has been deprecated and to use <br>
> landuse:farmland, but that complains about being a node.
There is no <br>
> easy way to define a farm boundary. I think in terms of
the mailbox, <br>
> driveway and largest concentration of activity being the
node centre.<br>
><br>
> And the name is the farm name, not the house name..
maybe! <br>
><br>
> Remote cattle stations can support an extended family (in
more than one <br>
> homestead) and other many onsite (staff) people. Are the
working farm <br>
> staff include in any people sizing calculations? ouch!<br>
><br>
> Personally I don't think it a good idea to tag a farm
that creates <br>
> commercial income with any notion of the number of
people. It gets a <br>
> bit blurry when it is an unusual group like a religious
order or non <br>
> profit retreat, but they already have other tags.<br>
><br>
> Cheers Bob<br>
><br>
> On 22/4/22 14:55, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:<br>
>> Also bringing discussion out here from Discord.<br>
>> <br>
>> An anonymous user is hitting Notes with quite a few
entries yesterday to say that remote homesteads are
incorrectly tagged as hamlets eg <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/3145380"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/3145380</a>,
but looking at this particular place <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?node=1829712552#map=17/-21.96106/148.80882"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?node=1829712552#map=17/-21.96106/148.80882</a>,
I'd say that "hamlet" was probably correct in that there could
well be a couple of families living there? <br>
>> <br>
>> Other suggestions that have been made are
place=isolated_dwelling or place=farm.<br>
>> <br>
>> Bit of a grey area, I guess? Isolated-dwelling says
1-2 families only, hamlet says 100-200 people, while
place=farm says "a family of farmers". Guess it really depends
on the particular property involved, which would require
detailed local knowledge? <br>
>> <br>
>> Thoughts? <br>
>> <br>
>> Thanks <br>
>> <br>
>> Graeme<br>
>> <br>
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