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<p>Hi,</p>
<p>I've cobbled together a draft model of how we could adopt the "AU" prefix within the network tags based on some of the issues raised in the previous thread.</p>
<p><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Diacritic/Proposed_Australian_Routes">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Diacritic/Proposed_Australian_Routes</a></p>
<p>Would really appreciate your thoughts and opinions; tried to match the existing structure as closely as possible.</p>
<p>Dian.</p>
<p id="reply-intro">On 2022-08-12 12:36, Dian Ågesson wrote:</p>
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<p>Hey Andrew,</p>
<p>I’m not surprised this is challenging to explain in an email. When I tidied up the Roads wiki page it was immediately clear that there are multiple layers of complexity here.</p>
<p>My understanding that there are several distinct “highway” concepts in Australia. When you are referring to <strong>state routes </strong>and <strong>national routes</strong>, are you talking about the old, numberic route numbering system? Or, are you talking about highways that have been gazetted as a "state controlled highway", such as <a>State (Bell/Springvale) Highway</a>. Does it actually make sense to have the "A1" as part of the "National Highway" network, given that it is an alphanumeric route?</p>
<p>I don't believe it is possible to assume that every numbered route has a specific name, and vice versa (The A1!=Princes Highway!=Imlay Street, Eden), but it would be help to update the network tags to be more in line with international practice.</p>
<p>Dian</p>
<p id="v1v1reply-intro">On 2022-08-11 07:45, Andrew Hughes wrote:</p>
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<div dir="ltr">Hi Andrew,
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<div>No I had not seen that and it's really helpful thank you.</div>
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<div>This is quite challenging to explain in an email but I will try...</div>
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<div><strong>Scenario:</strong> Given a way, how can I determine if that way is part of a state or national route with a name?</div>
<div> </div>
<div><strong>Scenario in Action:</strong></div>
<div>
<ul>
<li>Given the way "Mulgrave Street Gin Gin QLD" <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/31973923" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/31973923</a></li>
<li>Is this part of any relation.... Yes there are 2
<ul>
<li>First relation is the A1, is this a national/state Highway YES! because it has the route=road, network=NH <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/198279" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/198279</a></li>
<li>Second relation is "Bruce Highway", is this national/state, NO! because it does not have a network=NH or S tag. <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/198331" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/198331</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<div><strong>What's missing from the above:</strong></div>
<ul>
<li>The Bruce Highway relation <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/198331" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/198331</a>
<ul>
<li>Does not identify that it is related to the A1 - National Highway</li>
<li>Does not identify that south most section in North Brisbane the M1</li>
<li>Does not identity that this is a State Route - <strong><u>but I am unsure if it should</u></strong></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Similarly, the A1 relation <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/198279" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/198279</a>
<ul>
<li>Does not identify that it is related to the Bruce Highway (route)</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>The way "Mulgrave Street Gin Gin QLD" <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/31973923" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/31973923</a>
<ul>
<li>Can't be reliably determined to be part of a state/national route and found to be named "Bruce Highway". Yes, I can say its on the A1 (national highway) but I can't say that the Bruce Highway is a State/Road route</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
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<div><strong>My 2c</strong></div>
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<div>I'm unsure if what I am looking for should exist in a hierarchy of parent/child relations, or if it is best left to trawling through tags and finding references by convention and hope that things are tagged correctly. I kinda think the first is correct, or else why would OSM even have relations?</div>
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<div>Parent Child relation down to the way members....</div>
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<ul>
<li>RELATION: name=National Highway; ref=A1; route=road; network=NH
<ul>
<li>RELATION: name=Bruce Highway ref=A1:M3; route=road; network=S <--- not sure if this is S or NH
<ul>
<li>RELATION: name=Bruce Highway ref=A1; route=road; network=S
<ul>
<li>WAY....</li>
<li>WAY....</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>RELATION: name=Bruce Highway ref=M1; route=road; network=S
<ul>
<li>WAY...</li>
<li>WAY...</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
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<div>The above would allow a way's membership and hierarchy to be traversed.</div>
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<div><strong>Thoughts?</strong></div>
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<div>Please let me know CHEEERS!</div>
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<div class="v1v1v1gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Thu, 11 Aug 2022 at 14:50, Andrew Davidson <<a href="mailto:theswavu@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer">theswavu@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="v1v1v1gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 11:48 AM Andrew Hughes <<a href="mailto:ahhughes@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer">ahhughes@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br />> Some worldwide/geographic tagging guidelines exist, that are based on a combination with the "network" tag: see <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route#Road_routes" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route#Road_routes</a><br />><br /><br />Have you read <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines/Roads#Routes" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines/Roads#Routes</a><br />?<br /><br />_______________________________________________<br />Talk-au mailing list<br /><a href="mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a><br /><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au</a></blockquote>
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<div class="v1v1pre">_______________________________________________<br />Talk-au mailing list<br /><a href="mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a><br /><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au</a></div>
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<div class="pre" style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family: monospace">_______________________________________________<br />Talk-au mailing list<br /><a href="mailto:Talk-au@openstreetmap.org">Talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a><br /><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au</a></div>
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