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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Graeme,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>It also needs to be recent footage as lots have changed in the last couple of years (at least in TAS) and much of my old Mapillary footage would now be out of date. I would personally filter any town speed imagery by the last 12 months.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Cheers - Phil<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Graeme Fitzpatrick <graemefitz1@gmail.com> <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 24 January 2025 12:45 PM<br><b>To:</b> Phil Wyatt <phil@wyatt-family.com><br><b>Cc:</b> Mark Pulley <mark.pulley1@gmail.com>; OpenStreetMap-AU Mailing List <talk-au@openstreetmap.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [talk-au] Question about using NSW Speed Zone Data in OSM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Just looking at some of the work that's been done, I also have some concerns that a lot of this is based on Govt data, not actual road reports.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>A couple that stand out to me are <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/161546799">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/161546799</a> & <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/161332341">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/161332341</a>, with that one in particular spanning half of NSW! They must have a very busy driver reporting to them that day!<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Also noticed <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/161043708">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/161043708</a> in Qld, apparently based solely on <a href="https://www.data.qld.gov.au/dataset/speed-limits-for-state-and-local-roads/resource/a733d0a2-3164-4c63-b2f6-01ae491356f0">https://www.data.qld.gov.au/dataset/speed-limits-for-state-and-local-roads/resource/a733d0a2-3164-4c63-b2f6-01ae491356f0</a>, which, when you open it, says Speed: 100, Sign_Num: Unsigned. I would have translated that to no speed sign which should then mean no limit posted in OSM?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Bob3Bob3, are you able to comment at all on side road speeds, as you've been out that way: <a href="https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=-27.88184393155384&lng=150.3552983872255&z=19.80526275306296&pKey=866587440868417&focus=photo&x=0.4890568269273885&y=0.5948579482782078&zoom=0">https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=-27.88184393155384&lng=150.3552983872255&z=19.80526275306296&pKey=866587440868417&focus=photo&x=0.4890568269273885&y=0.5948579482782078&zoom=0</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I'd be much happier if they were basing their changes on actual dashcam footage, rather than Govt reports.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Graeme<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 at 10:55, Graeme Fitzpatrick <<a href="mailto:graemefitz1@gmail.com">graemefitz1@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>For info only (mainly for me!): original DWG reference number is Ticket# 2024022510000056 <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Graeme<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 at 20:38, Phil Wyatt <<a href="mailto:phil@wyatt-family.com" target="_blank">phil@wyatt-family.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Hi Mark,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Well at least that user name may provide some detail on who the actual company is behind the edits</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><a href="https://www.novasystems.com/au/what-we-do/global-alerting-platform#gap" target="_blank">https://www.novasystems.com/au/what-we-do/global-alerting-platform#gap</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/harsimranjit-kaur-253a00196/?originalSubdomain=au" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/harsimranjit-kaur-253a00196/?originalSubdomain=au</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>If they continue to make incorrect edits (after changeset comments mentioning the errors) then I suggest another word to DWG</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Cheers - Phil</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Mark Pulley <<a href="mailto:mark.pulley1@gmail.com" target="_blank">mark.pulley1@gmail.com</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 23 January 2025 8:38 PM<br><b>To:</b> Graeme Fitzpatrick <<a href="mailto:graemefitz1@gmail.com" target="_blank">graemefitz1@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> OpenStreetMap-AU Mailing List <<a href="mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk-au@openstreetmap.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [talk-au] Question about using NSW Speed Zone Data in OSM</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I’m just following up on this. I haven’t seen the promised Wiki page regarding these edits.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Harsimranjit Kaur’s last edit was 17 June 2024. Another user started doing similar edits starting on 8 July 2024. <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Nova%20Systems%20GAP" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Nova%20Systems%20GAP</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>(Or is it the same user with a new account?)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I’ve found one problematic edit from this user - <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/160414255" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/160414255</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Msxspeed through Nimmitabel had been updated in 2021 following an official change of max speed from 60 to 50.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Maxspeed was still 50 when I travelled through Nimmitabel in Nov 2024. (I had deleted my voice recording file after doing these edits, but found the voice recording in a Time Machine backup to confirm this was correct.)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Maxspeed was changed to 60 by this user. (I’ve reverted this change tonight.)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Sources for other changes by this user was "based on NSW Speed Data”, no source was given for this change, and the user has not responded to my query. I looked at the NSW Speed Data site, and it has maxspeed=50.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>I haven’t checked the other edits (now up to 149 changesets)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'>I’ve had a look at the NSW Speed Zone interactive map, and have noticed a few incorrect speed zones in places.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br>Mark P.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On 6 Mar 2024, at 8:52 pm, Graeme Fitzpatrick <<a href="mailto:graemefitz1@gmail.com" target="_blank">graemefitz1@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>They responded a few days ago but, as we're travelling atm, I didn't have a chance to do anything about it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Their response:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>"<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",serif'>We sincerely appreciate your efforts in bringing to our attention the organised edits rules and guidelines, of which we were previously unaware. We acknowledge the necessity to adhere to these guidelines and commit to creating a wiki page for our organised edits accordingly. However, we kindly request some time to complete this task.</span> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",serif'>Regarding our compliance with other editing rules, we are confident that we are fully adhering to them. It's important to note that our system utilises tools that rely on OpenStreetMap data. Upon discovering numerous discrepancies in the NSW speed zone data within OpenStreetMap, we initiated edits to rectify these inconsistencies.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",serif'>Our editing process follows a detailed verification procedure, outlined as follows:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><ol start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",serif'>A driver reports a speed discrepancy on a specific road.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",serif'>The driver report undergoes thorough verification and is escalated for further examination.</span><o:p></o:p></li></ol><div><ol start=3 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",serif'>We utilise NSW Speed Data (<a href="https://opendata.transport.nsw.gov.au/dataset/speed-zones" target="_blank">https://opendata.transport.nsw.gov.au/dataset/speed-zones</a>) to verify the reported speed limit.</span><o:p></o:p></li></ol></div><ol start=4 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",serif'>If the claimed speed limit aligns with the NSW Speed Data, we proceed to update it in OpenStreetMap.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",serif'>Conversely, if the reported speed limit does not match the NSW Speed Data, we reject the claim. However, if multiple drivers report the same speed limit discrepancy over time, we request evidence from the drivers, often resulting in the provision of images depicting posted speed limit signs. Based on this evidence, we update the speed limits in OpenStreetMap accordingly. </span><o:p></o:p></li></ol><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",serif'>We are eager to address any discrepancies that other mappers may have reported concerning the edits we have made. Could they kindly provide us with evidence to facilitate a detailed investigation? This will enable us to reassess and update our map editing processes as necessary.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",serif'>Our primary objective in making these edits is to enhance the experience of our drivers and community. Therefore, we welcome any suggestions or further discussion that would contribute to ensuring the accuracy of our edits."</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Don't know if that answers the questions you have?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I've suggested that they set up an account here to talk about what they are doing.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Graeme<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>