<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Hello </span><span style="color:rgb(32,33,36);font-size:0.875rem;letter-spacing:0.2px;font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;white-space:nowrap">Frederik Ramm, t</span>he website given as example
can't show render bangla
it's true
(other language as well, see countries like greece, any arab country, china etc) but by default they show english name or english name in the bracket (In Bangladesh most of data has english name even when default name tag is in Bengali). Anyone can use these service. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Yes, some app, site like this doesn't render correctly and we need to contact with developer to fix this and i'm agreey with this. but we should not fix this by doing other way around. I'm not requsting, saying no one can't add english. Primary name should be added in Bengali but for some reason if anyone can't add Bengali that's fine. We shouldn't make such rule where majority people speak write in Bengali is that primany name must be in English (even if it is temporay decision like for 5-10-15 years). If someone like me wants to contribute in Bengali or adds primary name (" name = ... ") in Bengali, i or anyone should able to do that.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Thank you</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">রবি, ২৪ নভেম্বর, ২০১৯ তারিখে ১১:৪৩ AM টায় এ Nasir Khan <<a href="mailto:nasir8891@gmail.com">nasir8891@gmail.com</a>> লিখেছেন:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Dear Frederik, <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Thank you for your email. <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Here is the response to your questions. I am a long term contributor to be Bengali Wikipedia and founding member of Wikimedia Bangladesh Chapter. I am the Bangladesh lead of Creative Commons. I am also involved in a number of open source projects by contributing code, content, documentations and more.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">1. English is not being used for day to day conversations in Bangladesh. But people use to use different English words in conversations. On the other hand internet users have a minimum misunderstanding on English you can get an idea from the top sites from Alexa [1]. Apart from the news sites most of them are English websites, though many of them have Bengali version and/or localization options. <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">For me it is better to write changeset in English. Most of the time changesets are checked by the contributors and not my by the mass users. Sometimes the contributors are from across the world and if each contributor describe changes in their own language then do you think it would be possible to understand each other or it would be helpful for collaboration? <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">By law business signboards should be written in Bengali. But only a limited number of business are doing so. Recent time Bengali and English are being displayed side by side. For street signs Bengali and English are used in almost all cases. As you live outside Bangladesh you can check Mapillary [2] or Google Street View to check the real scenario. By the way i saw Bengali text are not being rendered properly in the Mapillary website. <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">I believe the skill of communicating in English of the people of age 50+ are same across the world. You mentioned about Germany, it is same here in Bangladesh as well. <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">2. This topic is not relevant with this thread, i think we can discuss this on a separate thread. <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">3. I agree with Tasauf bhai and i think he describes the general practices properly. <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Please do understand that the topic we are discussing here is to establish a common standard for now. It is not about establishing or against any individual or opinion nor it is a lifetime decision. As a community we can change when necessary. I am proposing to use English in `name` and `name:bn` and `name:en` should be added separately. Because i found it would be much more helpful for the users and contributors as well. There are a number of use cases of the OSM and we should go to the direction where most of the cases can be covered. <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">I can write everything in Bengali and i have to think what percentage of user will get benefited by doing so! For example i use Mapillary and OpenStreetCam [3] to see the street level images. None of these can render the Bengali text. So me or other community member can communicate with these organizations and request them to fix the tool or we can build a new tool. Both of these need time so what could be done now? stop using these services or what else? <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Any one can say that OSM based tools can be fixed easily. But till today it has not been fixed i gave an example above and there are more, so it is not that easy too (might be a issue of technology or initiative). So we should push the tool developers to make it compatible for Bengali and also contribute to fix those too. But now it is not the right time to do everything in Bengali.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">regards</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Nasir Khan<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">[1] - <a href="https://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries/BD" target="_blank">https://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries/BD</a></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">[2] - <a href="https://www.mapillary.com" target="_blank">https://www.mapillary.com</a></div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">[3] - <a href="https://openstreetcam.org" target="_blank">https://openstreetcam.org</a></span><br>--<br><b>Nasir Khan Saikat</b><br><a href="http://www.nasirkhn.com" target="_blank">www.nasirkhn.com</a></span><div><div><span style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 at 09:53, Tasauf A Baki Billah <<a href="mailto:tasauf1980@gmail.com" target="_blank">tasauf1980@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Dear Frederik,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Hope this finds you well. Great to hear from you! </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I'm Tasauf aka Ribin from OSM Bangladesh community. You might remember me having a discusion with you about data quality, possible vandalism & your advice on that at Heidelberg during SotM. However, I have been involved with OSM in Bangladesh since 2014 & now leading the community's coordination groups. I'm also a board member of HOT. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Just to clear up you queries one by one:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">1. Most of the people in Bangladesh using internet/map understands the names written in English as English is the second language used from the primary education system. Though in case of writing they preffer to write it as Bangla on Roman script as using bangla keyboard is not yet much popular for the general population. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The population under 50 mostly using internet considering both high & avarage educated people do understands & can communicate in basic English while in written but while speaking Bangla is the native. But also have to keep in mind a good bit of english word stock is found on the conversations. People over 50 unless educated are not that much of popular user of internet/ maps. We are still on a verge to institutionalize Bangla in our official use but not even at the half of the way. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Personally I would love to see Bangla everywhere but using Bangla is more of an argument of emotion than use case for us for the time being & having changeset discussions/ tagging in Bangla is a good to have rather than a necessity in this stage. Also to keep in mind, even the translation engines often have ambiguous/ inappropriate results as not a lot being done at backend. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Most of the signages on the roads of the city Uses both English & Bangla on them, though a significant number has only English nameplates. There are a few only Bangla signboards too visible. If you go to the rural part you will find more only Bangla signage appearing on the scenerio.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">2. OSM was introduced in Bangladesh back in 2011. The more coordinated community based approach started from 2015 and OSM Bangladesh Foundation has been legally formed & registered at 2018. As of now anyone contributing to OSM in Bangladesh is considered a member of the foudation though a coordination board is present for handling the legal & organizational proceedures while a team of 45+ mappers/developers mostly known as "BHOOT" s are coordinating the technical, data & volunteer engagement part. The foundation remains open to any individual suggesting / get involved on the regular discussions. The State of the Map Asia held in Dhaka is hosted by the foundation earlier this month where 500+ osm contributors gathered togather. Also, discussions being made to push OSMBDF applying under OSMF local chapter for better calibration. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The OSMBD community including the foundation itself has been having discussions/ updates channeled through the facebook group <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/osmbd" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/groups/osmbd</a> rather than the website itself. So, going through that might give you better storyline.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">3. As part of mailing list ettiquete you can eaither use the first or last name of a person you want to address. Having Mr. On salutation with the last name is more formal approach. Usually, in Bangladesh we put Bhai(M) & Apu(F) after the first name as general casual referencing to a person in group. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Hope these resolves all the basic queries you have. Will gladly try to cooperate more if you need any.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Thanks for being in touch.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Tasauf (Ribin) </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"> </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"> </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, 23 Nov 2019, 5:05 am Frederik Ramm, <<a href="mailto:frederik@remote.org" target="_blank">frederik@remote.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hello everyone,<br>
<br>
the Data Working Group has been made aware of this discussion. I am from<br>
Germany and I have very little knowledge about Bangladesh, so I would<br>
initially like to ask three basic questions that will help me understand<br>
the situation:<br>
<br>
1. What is the status of English in everyday life in Bangladesh? Can<br>
everyone who uses the Internet also communicate in written English, or<br>
would a requirement of "please write your changeset comment in English"<br>
exclude certain parts of the population? Also, what about signage - will<br>
signs with street names or city names contain Bangla, English, or both<br>
names?<br>
<br>
For comparison, here in Germany, while nowadays most kids learn English<br>
at school, a significant portion of people who are 50 years or older<br>
would not be able to communicate in English unless they had higher<br>
education.<br>
<br>
2. What is the relationship between the "OpenStreetMap Bangladesh<br>
Foundation" and the mapper community in Bangladesh? How many mappers are<br>
members in the OSMBDF? How can mappers join the organisation, and how do<br>
they democratically influence what the OSMBDF does? I checked the web<br>
site but I found no information about that.<br>
<br>
3. A general question about mailing list etiquette. Is it usual, in<br>
mailing list discussions in Bangladesh, to refer to other participants<br>
with their last name? If you were to reply to my post with "Dear Mr<br>
Ramm", would that be (a) normal, (b) an expression of respect, or (c) an<br>
expression of "you are not part of my group so I will not use your first<br>
name"?<br>
<br>
Bye<br>
Frederik<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Frederik Ramm ## eMail <a href="mailto:frederik@remote.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">frederik@remote.org</a> ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div>
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