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I have tried a few times this converter website :<br>
<a href="http://twcc.free.fr/" class="external text" rel="nofollow">the
world coordinate converter</a><br>
From my point of view, it's OK, at least for the geodetic points i
tested. It could be interesting to discuss and chek some original
data for a few antenna, like the one i mentionned on the cafe 'Le
Central', grand place of Mons,<br>
<br>
I have seen on the website of IBPT: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.sites.ibpt.be/" target="_blank">http://www.sites.ibpt.be/</a>
that the position 3° 57' 10.5" E / 50° 27' 18.2" N for the above
mentionned point was also a few meters on the grand place, with the
google images<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Linusable<br>
<br>
Le 23/04/11 15:47, Ben Abelshausen a écrit :
<blockquote
cite="mid:BANLkTikdmtxgGqxaM4PG_VkOEDcUTHn-WQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">It is possible the coordinate conversion was not very
accurate but the source data was. I had some problems before
converting <span>Lambert coordinates and got about the same
deviations.</span><br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Ben<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Linus
Able <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:linusablelinus@yahoo.fr">linusablelinus@yahoo.fr</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<div style="font-family: 'times new roman','new
york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div style="color: black; font-family: 'times new
roman','new york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
Hello everybody, Hello Pol,</div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: 'times new
roman','new york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: 'times new
roman','new york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
i should want to question the accuracy of the data. I
have seen (before Pol deleted the data) one of the
antenna points on the (openstreetmap) Grand-Place de
Mons, in JOSM, with Bing aerial as background. The point
is café Le Central, at the corner of Grand Place with
rue de Nimy. I suppose the Antenna is on the roof, but
it appeared a few meters on the Grand Place, with a
difference of about 5-10m compare to the Bing images.</div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: 'times new
roman','new york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: 'times new
roman','new york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
What is wrong (or imprecise) : antenna coordinates or
Bing position ? </div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: 'times new
roman','new york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: 'times new
roman','new york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
In order to investigate Bing positionning around Mons, I
checked against a <span style="font-family: 'Times New
Roman'; font-size: medium;"><span>geodetic point from
ign/ngi (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ngi.be" target="_blank">www.ngi.be</a>),
using Fiche Planimétrique45D06C1, with a survey
point at position </span></span>N 50.47149281234526
E 4.028218331187543 (Obourg). It seems that the error is
less than 1-2 meters.</div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: 'times new
roman','new york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"> </div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: 'times new
roman','new york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
My naive first conclusion is that the accuracy of the
antenna positions could be quite poor, specially in
dense area (towns or cities). This could result to
absurd situations like antenna on streets.</div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: 'times new
roman','new york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<br>
</div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: 'times new
roman','new york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">Maybe
it could be interesting to use a script to analyse
distance of antenna (from the data files) with nearest
streets ? or another standard procedure ?</div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: 'times new
roman','new york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: 'times new
roman','new york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
Regards,</div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: 'times new
roman','new york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: 'times new
roman','new york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
Linusable</div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: 'times new
roman','new york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: 'times new
roman','new york',times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
Le 22/04/11 16:33, Pol a écrit :
<div>
<div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">I deleted them this morning
and as long as the situation is not clear.
<div><br clear="all">
-<b><span style="font-size: 13px; line-height:
19px; font-family: sans-serif;">φ</span>ol
d.</b>-<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at
10:22, Gerard Vanderveken <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Ghia@ghia.eu" target="_blank">Ghia@ghia.eu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:
0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
I was looking up some on the map, but it
seems that tower:type =
communications is not rendered anymore???<br>
I tought they were before, altough only in
Osmarender, cfr VRT radio
and tv towers in Overijse - Wavre.<br>
<br>
I see some have a name, but I'm affraid
that it won't add much, but
instead duplicating and cluthering the
rendering and names of the
current places (buildings like churches
etc)<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7911333"
target="_blank">http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7911333</a><br>
Some has also very generic names eg.
watertoren, kerk, etc<br>
<br>
There is a Wiki about GSM in the Belgian
project<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Mapping_resources#GSM.2FUMTS_antenna_sites"
target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Mapping_resources#GSM.2FUMTS_antenna_sites</a><br>
<br>
Should the points not to be deleted, until
the status about their use
becomes clear??<br>
For the moment it is obvious that it is
forbidden data.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Gerard.<br>
<br>
Pol wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="http://midBANLkTikqWU6mFvOG=4R4uFVV0WKefJK46w@mail.gmail.com">
<div>
<div>Hello,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I contacted them this morning
and they asked me to write down a
mail explaining the request, why,
etc etc etc.</div>
<div>That's what I did. If you want
a copy of the mail (in french),
just contact me in private.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>They told me that they will
forward the mail to their law
departement and I should expect an
answer next week.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Let's cross our fingers !
;) I'll keep you updated of the
situation !</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>By the way, I'll be at
the hackdemocracy this Thursday,
April
28, 2011: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.meetup.com/HackDemocracy/events/17010026/"
target="_blank">http://www.meetup.com/HackDemocracy/events/17010026/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Have a nice day all.</div>
<div><br clear="all">
-<b><span style="font-size: 13px;
line-height: 19px;
font-family: sans-serif;">φ</span>ol
d.</b>-
<div><font color="#202020"
face="'Droid Sans', arial,
sans-serif"><span
style="border-collapse:
collapse;"><br>
</span></font></div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu,
Apr 21, 2011 at 22:14, Pol <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:d.paolino@gmail.com"
target="_blank">d.paolino@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid
rgb(204, 204, 204); margin:
0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
padding-left: 1ex;">Hello,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Someone forwarded me the
mail from Lennard talking
about the
revert or not of my commit.</div>
<div>I wasn't aware of the
existence of that mailing
list until now.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Let me explain to all of
you how it all began...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One year ago I was
looking,
for personal purpose, the
coordinates of each cell
phones antennas in Belgium.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The first site I found
was: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.antennes-gsm.be/"
target="_blank">http://www.antennes-gsm.be/</a></div>
<div>But that one seems to be
old and no more maintained.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Then I found the one of
IBPT: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.sites.ibpt.be/"
target="_blank">http://www.sites.ibpt.be/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The one you are currently
seeing at this address is
the new
version.</div>
<div>When I first found it,
they were using an old
version.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>By doing some searches, I
found a huge security hole
in it.</div>
<div>I was unemployed at that
time and I decided to make
an exploit.</div>
<div>The exploit was simple,
using HTML and JavaScript, I
could
manipulate their databases
by sending custom queries.</div>
<div>I'm not a kid and I'm
someone who destroy someone
else's work,
so I contacted them and
explained the problem.</div>
<div>The reaction was fast,
some days later I was in
their offices
with my laptop, showing them
the problem and the possible
solutions.</div>
<div>I also made a new local
proof of concept that it
could be done
in a nicer and cleaner way.</div>
<div>Unfortunately, they were
really kind and say thanks
but we do
not rely on our team to do
the map, we rely on another
company and we
cannot break the current
contract with them.</div>
<div>Before leaving, I asked
to the head of security if
it was
possible to get a dump of
the antennas coordinates in
a more easy way
to put it on OpenStreetMap
and he said that it couldn't
be
done: "Imaginez ce que
pourrait faire qqun de mal
intentionné s'il
trouve ces données!" which
means: "Imagine what could
do someone
malicious if they finds
these datas!".</div>
<div>Which is completely a non
sense because those datas
can be
retrieved from THEIR online
website.</div>
<div>I said him that ! Someone
could spot by himself all
the
antennas and put them on
OpenStreetMap. He didn't
reply to that one.</div>
<div>So, I leaved, quite sad.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Some month later, the
current new system was in
place and the
security hole vanished,
problem solved.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>With the new system, it's
even easier to get their
datas.</div>
<div>I decided to save in a
file all the data I could
get from
their map in a file and
submit it to OpenStreetMap.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That's the end of the
story.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's up to you now to
decide if you want to remove
them or not.</div>
<div>If you have questions,
I'll reply to them on that
mailing list.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nice evening all.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-<b><span
style="font-size: 13px;
line-height: 19px;
font-family:
sans-serif;">φ</span>ol
d.</b>- </div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre><hr size="4" width="90%"><div>
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