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I definitely agree with this last Jo's proposal !<br>
<br>
Concerning the antenna position, i will try last week to answer
question concerning exact position, either middle of the roof, front
or the building or elsewhere :<br>
<blockquote type="cite">2011/4/24 Gerard Vanderveken <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Ghia@ghia.eu">Ghia@ghia.eu</a>></span><br>
(Are the antennas in front of the building against the wall?)</blockquote>
<br>
I also agree that my modifications concerning the Grand place are
not still satisfactory, as also state by Gerard :<br>
<blockquote type="cite">2011/4/24 Gerard Vanderveken <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Ghia@ghia.eu">Ghia@ghia.eu</a>></span><br>
- The street before the cafe in OSM is running through this
terrace
(see Bing sattelite view).<br>
(The way is not actualy a street but the border of the market
place)<br>
</blockquote>
What i should want to do is a mixt of a perimeter (closed way)
describing grand place as area and ways, concerning circulation. I
have to check exact situation because the Bing view has been taken
probably during an event organized on the Grand Place and sometimes
tables and chairs are placed in position normally devoted to
circulation (to go to "rue du Miroir). It is also a question of a
few meters.<br>
<br>
The tags for highway closed way is now
(highway:residential;area:yes;name:Grand Place). I don't know if it
is the best solution or if it is beter to substitute
highway:pedestrian ?<br>
<br>
Concerning conversion, i only copy values on the IBPT website as
their appear in the botton-left part of the window, and i use
converter for Lambert 2008 coordinates from ngi<br>
<br>
Best regards, <br>
<br>
Didier<br>
<br>
Le 24/04/11 13:16, Jo a écrit :
<blockquote
cite="mid:BANLkTimYekieCyF5kGS_Xg=28B2z9SGC1Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Hi, the first order is to get permission to use the
data, of course. To me the data about which providers make use of
a particular antenna (tower) is more interesting than the
coordinates. We have to make them fit into our context anyway, so
it's likely we'll be putting them at slightly different
coordinates. What I would do with them is to create an .osm file
with the original coordinates and load this into JOSM. Then
download information about an area into a new layer. Then
copy/paste them one by one, while at the same time moving them
where it makes sense for us to put them (in relation to the other
objects on our map).<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Polyglot<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2011/4/24 Gerard Vanderveken <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Ghia@ghia.eu">Ghia@ghia.eu</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
There are two things wrong:<br>
- The antenna at the site of BIPT is placed not on the roof
of the
building but above the white tent / parasol of the terrace
(See their
Google map with satelite view).<br>
(Are the antennas in front of the building against the
wall?)<br>
- The street before the cafe in OSM is running through this
terrace
(see Bing sattelite view).<br>
(The way is not actualy a street but the border of the
market place)<br>
the actual street should be located more south-west.<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/91685551"
target="_blank">http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/91685551</a><br>
Why do you convert the location in degrees, minutes and
seconds as the
BIPT site has already 2 formats?<br>
<span title="3° 57' 10.5" E / 50° 27' 18.2" N">Coordonnées:</span>
3.95292 E / 50.45506 N<br>
<span>Lambert:</span> X: 120473 / Y: 127218 m <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.45506&mlon=3.95292&zoom=18"
target="_blank">http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.45506&mlon=3.95292&zoom=18</a><br>
Seems the same location as on BIPT.<br>
Regards,<br>
<font color="#888888">
Gerard.</font>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
Linusable wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="http://mid4DB2EDA6.5010509@yahoo.fr"> I have
tried a few times this converter website :<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://twcc.free.fr/"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the
world coordinate converter</a><br>
>From my point of view, it's OK, at least for the
geodetic points i
tested. It could be interesting to discuss and chek
some original data
for a few antenna, like the one i mentionned on the
cafe 'Le Central',
grand place of Mons,<br>
<br>
I have seen on the website of IBPT: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.sites.ibpt.be/" target="_blank">http://www.sites.ibpt.be/</a>
that the position 3° 57' 10.5" E / 50° 27' 18.2" N for
the above
mentionned point was also a few meters on the grand
place, with the
google images<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Linusable<br>
<br>
Le 23/04/11 15:47, Ben Abelshausen a écrit :
<blockquote type="cite">It is possible the coordinate
conversion was not very
accurate but the source data was. I had some
problems before converting <span>Lambert
coordinates and got about the same deviations.</span><br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Ben<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at
9:59 PM, Linus
Able <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:linusablelinus@yahoo.fr"
target="_blank">linusablelinus@yahoo.fr</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204,
204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left:
1ex;">
<div>
<div style="font-family: 'times new
roman','new',york;">
<div style="color: black;">
Hello everybody, Hello Pol,</div>
<div style="color: black;"><br>
</div>
<div style="color: black;"> i
should want to question the accuracy of
the data. I have seen (before
Pol deleted the data) one of the antenna
points on the (openstreetmap)
Grand-Place de Mons, in JOSM, with Bing
aerial as background. The point
is café Le Central, at the corner of Grand
Place with rue de Nimy. I
suppose the Antenna is on the roof, but it
appeared a few meters on the
Grand Place, with a difference of about
5-10m compare to the Bing
images.</div>
<div style="color: black;"><br>
</div>
<div style="color: black;">
What is wrong (or imprecise) : antenna
coordinates or Bing position ? </div>
<div style="color: black;"><br>
</div>
<div style="color: black;"> In
order to investigate Bing positionning
around Mons, I checked against a <span
style="font-family: 'Times New',Roman;"><span>geodetic
point from
ign/ngi (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ngi.be"
target="_blank">www.ngi.be</a>),
using Fiche Planimétrique45D06C1,
with a survey point at position </span></span>N
50.47149281234526 E
4.028218331187543 (Obourg). It seems that
the error is less than 1-2
meters.</div>
<div style="color: black;"> </div>
<div style="color: black;"> My
naive first conclusion is that the
accuracy of the antenna positions
could be quite poor, specially in dense
area (towns or cities). This
could result to absurd situations like
antenna on streets.</div>
<div style="color: black;"> <br>
</div>
<div style="color: black;">Maybe
it could be interesting to use a script to
analyse distance of antenna
(from the data files) with nearest streets
? or another standard
procedure ?</div>
<div style="color: black;"><br>
</div>
<div style="color: black;">
Regards,</div>
<div style="color: black;"><br>
</div>
<div style="color: black;">
Linusable</div>
<div style="color: black;"><br>
</div>
<div style="color: black;"> Le
22/04/11 16:33, Pol a écrit :
<div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">I deleted them
this morning and as long
as the situation is not clear.
<div><br clear="all">
-<b><span style="font-size: 13px;
line-height: 19px;
font-family: sans-serif;">φ</span>ol
d.</b>-<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri,
Apr 22, 2011 at 10:22, Gerard
Vanderveken <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Ghia@ghia.eu"
target="_blank">Ghia@ghia.eu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid
rgb(204, 204, 204); margin:
0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div text="#000000"
bgcolor="#ffffff"> I was
looking up some
on the map, but it seems
that tower:type =
communications is not
rendered anymore???<br>
I tought they were before,
altough only in Osmarender,
cfr VRT radio
and tv towers in Overijse -
Wavre.<br>
<br>
I see some have a name, but
I'm affraid that it won't
add much, but
instead duplicating and
cluthering the rendering and
names of the
current places (buildings
like churches etc)<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7911333"
target="_blank">http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7911333</a><br>
Some has also very generic
names eg. watertoren, kerk,
etc<br>
<br>
There is a Wiki about GSM in
the Belgian project<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Mapping_resources#GSM.2FUMTS_antenna_sites"
target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Mapping_resources#GSM.2FUMTS_antenna_sites</a><br>
<br>
Should the points not to be
deleted, until the status
about their use
becomes clear??<br>
For the moment it is obvious
that it is forbidden data.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Gerard.<br>
<br>
Pol wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="http://midBANLkTikqWU6mFvOG=4R4uFVV0WKefJK46w@mail.gmail.com">
<div>
<div>Hello,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I contacted them
this morning and
they asked me to
write down a mail
explaining the
request, why, etc
etc etc.</div>
<div>That's what I
did. If you want a
copy of the mail (in
french), just
contact me in
private.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>They told me that
they will forward
the mail to their
law departement and
I should expect an
answer next week.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Let's cross our
fingers ! ;) I'll
keep you updated of
the situation !</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>By the way, I'll
be at
the hackdemocracy
this Thursday, April
28, 2011: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.meetup.com/HackDemocracy/events/17010026/"
target="_blank">http://www.meetup.com/HackDemocracy/events/17010026/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Have a nice day
all.</div>
<div><br clear="all">
-<b><span
style="font-size:
13px;
line-height:
19px;
font-family:
sans-serif;">φ</span>ol
d.</b>-
<div><font
color="#202020"
face="'Droid
Sans', arial,
sans-serif"><span
style="border-collapse:
collapse;"><br>
</span></font></div>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">On
Thu, Apr 21, 2011
at 22:14, Pol <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:d.paolino@gmail.com" target="_blank">d.paolino@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left:
1px solid
rgb(204, 204,
204); margin:
0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex;
padding-left:
1ex;">Hello,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Someone
forwarded me
the mail from
Lennard
talking
about the
revert or not
of my commit.</div>
<div>I wasn't
aware of the
existence of
that mailing
list
until now.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Let me
explain to all
of you how it
all began...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One year
ago I was
looking,
for personal purpose,
the
coordinates of
each cell
phones
antennas in
Belgium.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The first
site I found
was: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.antennes-gsm.be/" target="_blank">http://www.antennes-gsm.be/</a></div>
<div>But that
one seems to
be old and no
more
maintained.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Then I
found the one
of IBPT: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.sites.ibpt.be/" target="_blank">http://www.sites.ibpt.be/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The one you
are currently
seeing at this
address is
the new
version.</div>
<div>When I
first found
it, they were
using an old
version.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>By doing
some searches,
I found a huge
security hole
in it.</div>
<div>I was
unemployed at
that time and
I decided to
make
an exploit.</div>
<div>The exploit
was simple,
using HTML and
JavaScript, I
could
manipulate
their
databases by
sending custom
queries.</div>
<div>I'm not a
kid and I'm
someone who
destroy
someone
else's work,
so I contacted
them and
explained the
problem.</div>
<div>The
reaction was
fast, some
days later I
was in
their offices
with my
laptop,
showing them
the problem
and the
possible
solutions.</div>
<div>I also made
a new local
proof of
concept that
it
could be done
in a nicer and
cleaner way.</div>
<div>Unfortunately,
they were
really kind
and say thanks
but we do not
rely on our
team to do the
map, we rely
on another
company and we
cannot break
the current
contract with
them.</div>
<div>Before
leaving, I
asked to the
head of
security if
it was
possible to
get a dump of
the antennas
coordinates in
a more
easy way to
put it on
OpenStreetMap
and he said
that it
couldn't be
done: "Imaginez
ce que
pourrait faire
qqun de mal
intentionné
s'il
trouve ces
données!"
which means:
"Imagine what
could do
someone
malicious if
they finds
these datas!".</div>
<div>Which is
completely a
non sense
because those
datas
can be
retrieved from
THEIR online
website.</div>
<div>I said him
that ! Someone
could spot by
himself all
the antennas
and put them
on
OpenStreetMap.
He didn't
reply to that
one.</div>
<div>So, I
leaved, quite
sad.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Some month
later, the
current new
system was in
place and the
security hole
vanished,
problem
solved.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>With the
new system,
it's even
easier to get
their
datas.</div>
<div>I decided
to save in a
file all the
data I could
get
from their map
in a file and
submit it to
OpenStreetMap.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That's the
end of the
story.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's up to
you now to
decide if you
want to remove
them or not.</div>
<div>If you have
questions,
I'll reply to
them on that
mailing list.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nice
evening all.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-<b><span
style="font-size:
13px;
line-height:
19px;
font-family:
sans-serif;">φ</span>ol
d.</b>- </div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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