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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Great information Jo, <br>
<br>
I think it's merits a wiki page. Is there already an existing one
we can edit ? I've know your strategy is like this for a long
time, and think it's the best we can do given the circumstances,
so we should push this forward as the de facto standard.<br>
<br>
Thanks for the work, glad you are 'back' ;-)<br>
<br>
Glenn<br>
<br>
<br>
On 20-12-13 15:17, Jo wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJ6DwMADWyFEg6Zwnxc3dYOh6DNMgTL1ycE_2E2bum3UKm5s9Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<div>Hi,<br>
<br>
</div>
I emailed to De Lijn with the question
whether it was OK to add this text:<br>
<br>
<h5><span class="" id="De_Lijn">De Lijn </span></h5>
<p>Openstreetmap contains data about
public transport with permission from <b>De
Lijn</b>, the public transport company
in the region of 'Vlaanderen' in
Belgium. This permission does not mean
Openstreetmap is endorsed by <b>De Lijn</b>.
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/De_Lijndata"
title="WikiProject Belgium/De
Lijndata">Technical solutions</a> are
being implemented by Openstreetmap
contributors to keep the data accurate
and up-to-date on a best effort basis.
There are no guarantees however that the
data is fit for any purpose</p>
<p><br>
</p>
to<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#De_Lijn">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#De_Lijn</a><br>
<br>
</div>
They double checked with the legal
department and they confirmed it is OK.<br>
<br>
</div>
On the web site of AGIV, there is also data of
De Lijn available, but as far as I can see,
not for the general public.<br>
<br>
</div>
There is also a mention that if one wants to use
it for commercial purposes, one has to ask De
Lijn directly. This involves signing their
standard contract, which I did. In a way it's
only a formality, anyone can do it. Anyway,
that's the way to get access to their FTP
server.<br>
<br>
</div>
As far as stops go, we have 8000 which are
actually served by buses left to add. The other
29886 are already available.<br>
Once that data is in OSM, it becomes available
under the ODBL. Is OKFN interested in regular
updates of this dataset? Or do you want to put
instructions on your site, how one can download
the latest version of this data with an Overpass
query?<br>
<br>
</div>
Since I started adding them, some contributors have
reacted: oh there is no need to add/edit bus stops
anymore. This is not quite true. For many stops,
it's possible to position them either on the shelter
or on the B U S markings which are visible on aerial
imagery, for many, many others, the positions need
to be checked in the field.<br>
<br>
</div>
Some stops have more than 1 ref number. There is only
one pole, but the different divisions
(entiteiten/provinces) didn't agree on 1 number. In
this case I created 2 nodes next to each other. At the
moment I don't have another way to cope with this
problem. (due to choices for how to store the
information efficiently in the DB I use to compare
upstream and downstream data).<br>
</div>
The same thing is true when a stop is served by more
than one operator. It's a lot easier to verify in an
automated way when there is one node per operator.
Otherwise zone becomes 89;3422 for stops which are
served by De Lijn and Veolia, for example. Or the naming
clashes. Or the route_ref has entries for lines which
are unrelated to De Lijn, so it becomes too hard to
verify.<br>
<br>
</div>
An other problem I encountered is when a tram stop and a
bus stop have the same ref number. In this case I left it
on the bus stop and removed it from the tram stop. There
can be only one. (I use these ref numbers as the common
ground between the data of De Lijn and the data in OSM).<br>
<br>
</div>
Such stops will always be members of the same stop_area
relation.<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
I'm still working on a way to do QC on the routes. No rest for
the wicked :-)<br>
<br>
</div>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Jo<br>
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2013/12/17 Ben Abelshausen <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ben.abelshausen@gmail.com" target="_blank">ben.abelshausen@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi All,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We recieved this email on the okfn-be list from
Pieter:</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Noël
Van Herreweghe of Corvé/Bestuurzaken Flemish
government published a list of datasets that should be
open data according "decreet openbaarheid van bestuur
/ decreet hergebruik van overheidsinformatie" and the
new policy at the Flemish Government that databases
should be open by default, not by exception.</span><br
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">If
you cannot access a certain dataset in this list:</span><br
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://demo.thedatatank.com/flanders/datasets"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"
target="_blank">http://demo.thedatatank.com/flanders/datasets</a><br
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">you
should send an email to the responsible organisation.
If the organisation declines you the access to this we
can start a "beroepsprocedure". In all other cases we
will have a bunch of new open data :)</span><br
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">I
already did this for Codex Vlaanderen. They first
reacted a bit slow and asked me question about how I
wanted the data. When I got it, I've put it on Github.
Right now they are moving towards a more professional
way of opening up their data. All because just one
question.</span><br
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Conclusion:
we need your help! Send a couple of emails, open
Flanders :)</span></blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is also relevant here, the data in this list
should be available as open-data (same licence as CRAB)
and there is a lot of geo-data. A few highlights from
that list:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- GRB</div>
<div>- MRB Wegen</div>
<div>- De Lijn routeplanner</div>
<div>- ...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>@jo: I you want you can now request full access to
the data from de lijn quoting this <span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">"decreet
openbaarheid van bestuur / decreet hergebruik van
overheidsinformatie", they should give you the
relevant data including an appropriate licence without
you having to guarantee them . I think this also
implies the schedules.</span></div>
<div>@marc: I see 'Inventaris Bouwkundig Erfgoed' and
other relevant stuff! :-)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you plan on trying to get a dataset then maybe
it's a good idea to post this on this list. This will
prevent duplicate efforts.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I will try and get the GRB/MRB wegen or access to it.</div>
<div><br>
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<div dir="ltr">Met vriendelijke groeten,<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Ben Abelshausen</div>
</div>
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<br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
"The program isn't debugged until the last user is dead."</pre>
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