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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2014-01-17 13:22, Julien Fastré
wrote :<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:52D92071.3030205@fastre.info" type="cite">
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<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 16/01/14 21:12, André Pirard a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:52D83D2E.5070001@gmail.com" type="cite">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2014-01-16 17:44, Julien Fastré
wrote :<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:52D80C6C.90904@fastre.info" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi,
I am contacted with the Cabinet of Philippe Henry, in charge of
geography in Wallonia.
They would like to have the opinion of the contributors about the "plan
stratégique de la géomatique".
They need someone to talk. This person should be in Wallonia and there
should be an agreement to talk with him.
If you would agree, I propose myself to go on with those talks, until we
have a more organised organisation (under the umbrella of OKFN).
Do you agree that I go to discuss with them, summarize the plan, pro and
cons, and give them back an advice from OSM contributors ?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Don't forget that, in addition to legality, we technically need
WMS + EPSG 4326,3857,900913, ....<br>
These EPSGs were missing from the [PICC] cartopro2 WMS server
that they have removed.<br>
You told us that the SPW said that they would add the EPSGs by
the end of the year.<br>
I've just read that the new Arcgis REST system they use serves
all EPSGs already.<br>
And I could verify that (with a bit of surprise).<br>
But now, where is the WMS? It sounds like just an Arcgis
wms=yes configuration tag to add :-)<br>
Could that be recalled "to-morrow"? Or the day after?<br>
I'd be most happy to stop recalling that myself after 5 years
;-)<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>André.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
</blockquote>
André,<br>
<br>
I think EPSG 4326 and 3857 are now available on all webservices,
since beginning of December : <br>
</blockquote>
¿¿¿¿¿ Where have you seen that, Julien ?????<br>
AFAICS there have been absolutely no changes with SPW servers in
December !!!!! ;-)))))<br>
The PPNC server still exhibits the 4326 bug.<br>
The ESRI server too. Additionally all its layers I tested have been
removed (error message instead of data).<br>
The PICC server probably too. But it's difficult to tell because it
no longer responds since about 6 months.<br>
Details below.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:52D92071.3030205@fastre.info" type="cite">You
may browse webservices from here : <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://geoservices.wallonie.be/arcgis/rest/services">http://geoservices.wallonie.be/arcgis/rest/services</a><br>
</blockquote>
I have been spying on that server for some time. I discovered it by
pure chance.<br>
That's an Arcgis server with, as you can see, <b>Supported
Interfaces:</b> <a target="_blank"
href="http://geoservices.wallonie.be/arcgis/rest/services/?f=pjson">REST</a>
<a target="_blank"
href="http://geoservices.wallonie.be/arcgis/services?wsdl">SOAP</a>
<a target="_blank"
href="http://geoservices.wallonie.be/arcgis/rest/services/?f=sitemap">Sitemap</a>
<a target="_blank"
href="http://geoservices.wallonie.be/arcgis/rest/services/?f=geositemap">Geo
Sitemap</a> <br>
Let's call it Arcgis as I don't see any name for it.<br>
AFAICS, it could be configured with an additional WMS service but it
is not.<br>
Hence, it does not work with JOSM et al. <br>
It seems really hard to understand that JOSM et al. need WMS + EPSG
4326 et al. !!! ;-)))))))<br>
Those who do not understand, <a
href="http://gditestbed.agiv.be/post/2011/11/16/Nieuwe-GRB-service-beschikbaar.aspx">please
look here</a>.<br>
Or will you explain your JOSM et al. configuration to display (but
not copy (yet)) SPW?<br>
<br>
In short, the PICC server used to be displayable (but not copyable
(yet)) only by those who could afford a re-projecting proxy on their
system and I had recommended to ask SPW to support 4326 et al. in
PICC for those who cannot. Did you ask? Was the SPW reply stopping
that server?<br>
<br>
Presently, the SPW <b>has removed all its services</b> that were
usable. Not quite what you say ;-)))))<br>
<br>
Another reason for asking is, as you probably know, that PICC is of
<b>much much much better quality</b> than new Arcgis.<br>
For example, PICC shows not only multiple tracks of a railway line,
but even <b>each rail</b> of each track, catenary gantries and many
such details. AFAICS, Arcgis shows only a rough trace per line and,
for example, <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.6094&mlon=5.5780#map=16/50.6094/5.5780&layers=N">the
Kinkempois yard</a> (a huge "gare de triage") <a
href="http://geoportail.wallonie.be/WalOnMap/#BBOX=235063.6615765241,236984.54041828174,144436.6995141131,145635.26441124288">is
completely empty</a> (even the line and the station) and <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.6238&mlon=5.5672#map=16/50.6238/5.5672&layers=N">the
tracks and platforms of the Guillemins station</a> are <a
href="http://geoportail.wallonie.be/WalOnMap/#BBOX=234382.35813058395,235342.79755146278,146384.0367421209,146983.31919068578">totally
missing</a>, let alone speaking of the railway track that goes
across the streets and through the houses.<br>
The same holds for the streets and most features etc, I won't dive
into more details.<br>
PICC is really beyond compare with Arcgis.<br>
<br>
And as I noticed in one of your reports that SPW spoke of the PICC
server as of outdated valueless data (which is probably why it's
stopped), I suggested to ask SPW if they would allow us to copy that
valueless data. That would be tremendous for us to be able to
locate features precisely instead of approximately and never come
back to improve the precision.<br>
I suppose it was asked. Is the SPW answer really closing PICC
without notice?<br>
<br>
So, in short, the requests are:<br>
since 5 years: correct the 4326 bug<br>
new: keep the PICC server running<br>
let us copy its old data<br>
configure WMS to Arcgis (and make a new WMS announcement page)<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance,<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
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<td>André.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
More details...<br>
<br>
Let us recall that the <a
href="http://cartographie.wallonie.be/NewPortailCarto/index.jsp?page=ProfDonnRefAccesWMS">SPW
WMS announcement is here</a>. It explains the benefits of WMS
etc. It is now overlaid with a text forbidding to talk about the
old WMS services (excuse me) but still letting use them.<br>
That overlay redirects to a replacement page that ... contains no
WMS at all !!! There is a gorgeous sentence "<span><span>-<span
style="font:7.0pt 'Times New Roman'"> </span></span></span>Si
vous ne trouvez pas sur le Géoportail de la Wallonie [Arcgis] un
contenu que vous aviez l’habitude de trouver sur l’ancien portail,
n’hésitez pas à <u><a
href="http://geoportail.wallonie.be/cms/home/contact.html"
target="_blank">nous contacter</a></u>." There is no hidden
camera.<br>
<br>
That page consists mainly of 3 servers whose URLs are incorrect and
not even links, better click here:<br>
<b>PPNC :</b> orthophotos<br>
<a
href="http://cartopro1.wallonie.be/WMS/com.esri.wms.Esrimap/PPNC?&service=WMS&REQUEST=GetCapabilities">http://cartopro1.wallonie.be/WMS/com.esri.wms.Esrimap/PPNC?&service=WMS&REQUEST=GetCapabilities</a><br>
<b>PICC</b> : the interesting geographic data<br>
<a
href="http://cartopro2.wallonie.be/wmsdnf/wms110.do?&service=WMS&REQUEST=GetCapabilities">http://cartopro2.wallonie.be/wmsdnf/wms110.do?&service=WMS&REQUEST=GetCapabilities</a><br>
<b>ESRI</b>: other interesting geographic data<br>
<a
href="http://cartopro1.wallonie.be/WMS/com.esri.wms.Esrimap/portail?&service=WMS&REQUEST=GetCapabilities">http://cartopro1.wallonie.be/WMS/com.esri.wms.Esrimap/portail?&service=WMS&REQUEST=GetCapabilities</a><br>
<br>
All those servers are in principle free to use
(<Fees></Fees><AccessConstraints></AccessConstraints>,
Several people wrote to the SPW 5 years ago to confirm that: no
reply.<br>
But you came back from the SPW saying repeatedly that using these
servers is pirating, including the only remaining PPNC photos that
is at least 15 years old, probably 20 and maybe 25.<br>
Whatever their age, the PICC data was very useful to non pirates to
be used as intended by SPW : looked at in JOSM to compare other maps
(but not copy them (yet)).<br>
<br>
But I wrote to SPW 5 years ago that their capabilities indicated
EPSG 4326 but that it did not work (a bug) and there was no reply.
Hence, the SPW servers have been so far unusable with JOSM simply.<br>
<br>
The SPW server evolution is as follows:<br>
PICC: simple case: that very interesting server no longer responded
for more than 6 months.<br>
ESRI: simple case too: it no longer contains the layers that its
Capabilities indicate.<br>
PPNC: only that forbidden 20 yo photos server remains.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:52D92071.3030205@fastre.info" type="cite">Here
can you find : <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:52D92071.3030205@fastre.info" type="cite"><Layer><Title>Layers</Title><CRS>EPSG:4326</CRS><CRS>EPSG:3857</CRS><CRS>EPSG:31370</CRS><br>
</blockquote>
from : <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://geoservices.wallonie.be/arcgis/services/IMAGERIE/ORTHO_2012_2013/MapServer/WMSServer?request=GetCapabilities&service=WMS">http://geoservices.wallonie.be/arcgis/services/IMAGERIE/ORTHO_2012_2013/MapServer/WMSServer?request=GetCapabilities&service=WMS</a>
(capabilities of ORTHO 2012)<br>
</blockquote>
<tt>That's a new server to me</tt>. WMS + 4326 et al. indeed.<br>
That's the only one usable, but that's only photos.<br>
Free to use:
<Fees></Fees><AccessConstraints></AccessConstraints><br>
Where is the announcement page (maybe saying that we cannot copy
(yet))?<br>
<br>
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