<div dir="ltr"><div><div>The way I always understood the word survey in an OSM context is physically going somewhere, recording a fact about the geography and adding it to Openstreetmap. The job of a surveyor. I guess it's OK to send somebody else who takes picture or adds POIs for you.<br>
<br></div>Jo<br></div><br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2014-06-17 21:49 GMT+02:00 André Pirard <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:A.Pirard@ulg.ac.be" target="_blank">A.Pirard@ulg.ac.be</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>On 2014-06-17 15:16, Marc Gemis wrote :<br>
</div><div class="">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">From <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Annotation" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Annotation</a>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>source = survey <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:19.200000762939453px;background-color:rgb(249,249,249)">Track
from GPS unit (usually GPX fomat) or other physical survey;
suggested addition -</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:19.200000762939453px;background-color:rgb(249,249,249)"> </span><tt dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);line-height:19.200000762939453px;font-family:monospace,Courier;font-size:14px;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(221,221,238)"><a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:survey:date" title="Key:survey:date" style="color:rgb(11,0,128);text-decoration:none;background:none" target="_blank">survey:date</a>=YYYY-MM-DD</tt></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12px;line-height:19.200000762939453px;background-color:rgb(249,249,249)">so
IMHO checking the position on aerial images is not
included</span></font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
According to <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source" target="_blank">Key:source</a>,
<br>
<ul>
<li>survey = see above in section "How To Use"</li>
<li>"How To Use": a survey is a survey, a survey is a survey, </li>
<li>and, according to the dictionary, survey = "<b>to inspect</b>
to view in detail, ... <b>in order to ascertain</b> condition,
value, etc."<br>
</li>
<li>I doubt that "<tt style="background-color:#dde;white-space:pre-wrap" dir="ltr"><a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source:maxspeed" title="Key:source:maxspeed" target="_blank">source:maxspeed</a>=Survey 20
November 2012</tt>" was done with a "<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:19.200000762939453px;background-color:rgb(249,249,249)">GPS
unit (usually GPX fomat) or other physical survey": </span>your
quote is incoherent with <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source" target="_blank">Key:source</a></li>
<li>in source:XXX=data, XXX is whose key (its name) source applies
to and data is the means of verification like visual and survey,
including any reference to a publication. When XXX does not
exist, source applies to all tags.</li>
<li>there is no XXX specific to precise location indeed.<br>
</li>
</ul>
So, to my best understanding of English, <b>source=survey 2014-04</b>
means that all data have been verified to be correct on that date.<br>
<br>
<u>And that's exactly my intention to indicate that all the data of
a bus stop entry has been verified</u> to spare the next visitor
another useless verification.<br>
<br>
It may happen that there is an error in a TEC entry and, in that
case, the survey date will be later than the import date and a note
had better explain why.<br>
BTW, this has been presented on the Tagging@osm list and nobody
denied the meaning of survey, only someone said that he doesn't like
the word "survey" for that purpose.<br>
<br>
Now if you know a better way, don't hesitate to start suggesting.<div class=""><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12px;line-height:19.200000762939453px;background-color:rgb(249,249,249)">the
source should a) contain some reference to TEC,<br>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
and what do you think is <b>TEC 2014-04</b>?<br>
or Julien's <tt style="background-color:#dde;white-space:pre-wrap" dir="ltr"><a rel="nofollow" href="http://tec-wl.be" target="_blank">http://tec-wl.be</a> 2014-04</tt>
instead?<br>
<br>
But, as we say, Jo should include that in his file.<div class=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12px;line-height:19.200000762939453px;background-color:rgb(249,249,249)">
b) any aerial image you have used (probably Bing).</span></font></div>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
all I said doesn't exclude other sources like <b>Bing 2004</b> nor
anything else of <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org</a><br>
but I will not make an exhaustive list of what mappers are supposed
to know already<br>
<br>
On 2014-06-17 15:18, Ben Abelshausen wrote :<div class=""><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>"Survey" does mean explicitly that there was an actual survey
(meaning, going to each and every bus station to check if it is
there!): <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Survey#How_to_use" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Survey#How_to_use</a></div>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
Survey meaning that there was a survey makes no doubt, but the
problem is defining the word survey which, typically OSM, that
article does not. So, I resorted to a dictionary and it it's a
verification by any means, not necessarily going.<br>
<br>
Checking if it's there, and I'll add "where".<br>
Actually, a plain bus stop is where the bus stops. So, having no bus
stop simply means that the bus doesn't stop.<br>
If TEC says that the bus stops, I have a tendency to believe them,
else who should we believe? ;-)<br>
Now, regarding the shelters, shoulders etc., and exact position, the
police have surveillance cameras to check that no one stole the
street. But we, penniless people, have satellites to check that no
one stole bus stops ;-) In the north, no problem using them. In
the south, it needs some trickery because we cannot copy (yet)
orthophotos. The trickery is to find the bus stop on a
viewable-only, recent photo, then to check that it's at the same
place as on Bing, and then to copy it from Bing. Et voilà.<br>
In the rare cases you must go, you can go by bus. Use a delivery
itinerary optimizer and a GPS tracker and buy a round trip tourist
ticket. Ask the driver if he prefers telling you where he would
stop exactly or if you're required to actually push the stop button
each time.<br>
<br>
BTW, I have read that it's the way they make their maps. By running
trackers on drivers' GPSes and calculating the mean values.
According to the results obtained by TEC, I would recommend buying
several round trip tickets ;-)<br>
<br>
Just a little bit humorously ;-)<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>André.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table></font></span><div class="">
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12px;line-height:19.200000762939453px;background-color:rgb(249,249,249)">regards</span></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12px;line-height:19.200000762939453px;background-color:rgb(249,249,249)"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12px;line-height:19.200000762939453px;background-color:rgb(249,249,249)">m</span></font></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 2:55 PM, André
Pirard <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:A.Pirard.Papou@gmail.com" target="_blank">A.Pirard.Papou@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>On 2014-06-17 09:21, Marc Gemis wrote :<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at
11:13 PM, André Pirard <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:A.Pirard.Papou@gmail.com" target="_blank">A.Pirard.Papou@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">If you
use <b>source=survey 2014-06 TEC 2014-04</b>
in bus stops as I recommend, you will both
comply with the source requirement and be
sure to find the indication that they
contain your file's data and can be
deleted from the remaining-to-be-updated
file.<br>
If an existing element does not contain <b>source=survey
2014-06</b><b> TEC 2014-04</b> or
later, it will be kept in the
remaining-to-be-updated file. If a mapper
further updates the data, he is kindly
requested to use a new date such as <b>source=survey
2014-07</b> or <b>source=survey <span><span>2014-06-21</span></span></b>
.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div> </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
Sorry, but this is not a survey, this is an
import. IMHO, you can only use survey when you
go out and check the exact position of the bus
stop. A survey is not transforming data from one
database format into another. So please do not
use source=survey.</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
Survey is not just going out and check the bus position
but ITHO<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> <span><span><a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/survey" target="_blank"><span>verb</span></a> <span>(used</span>
<span>with</span> <span>object)</span> </span></span>
<div> <span><span><span>2.</span></span></span><span><span>
to</span> <span>view</span> <span>in</span> <span>detail,</span>
<span>especially</span> <span>to</span> <span>inspect,</span>
<span>examine,</span> <span>or</span> <span>appraise</span>
<span>formally</span> <span>or</span> <span>officially</span>
<span>in</span> <span>order</span> <span>to</span>
<span>ascertain</span> <span>condition,</span> <span>value,</span>
<span>etc.</span> </span> </div>
</blockquote>
that is, <span><span>ascertaining, </span></span>making
sure that all data associated with the bus stop is
correct.<br>
<br>
Importing the TEC data is the reason for adding/updating <b>TEC
2014-04</b> (allowing to check that the import was
done).<br>
As the user applying this import is also requested (see
instructions) to adjust the location of the bus stop (not
by going out but simply with Bing etc.), all the data will
be "ascertained" after doing that (unless other data is to
be verified) and then the user can add <b>survey 2014-04</b>
or later.<br>
<br>
<b>survey 2014-04</b> is not an indication of the import
but is/should be in the imported data as a facility for
the user to just copy it instead of having to "type" it
for each bus stop. He may keep it, change it or delete it
but you should not tell him not to use it.<br>
<br>
So please <b>do</b> use source=survey during the import,
but (<b>obviously</b>) <b>only</b> after ascertaining all
the data.<br>
It indicates that you have adjusted the location etc...
and that it must not be done 10 times.<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>André.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>