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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2014-07-03 21:20, Stijn Rombauts
wrote :<br>
<br>
Nice to meet you.<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1404415214.38470.YahooMailNeo@web164903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
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<div
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
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<div class="yiv9142680378" id="yiv9142680378" style="">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_8804"
style="">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_8803"
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_6_1404409807498_4"
style=""><span class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_6443"
style="">Hi,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Decent documentation is certainly useful, but
some remarks:</span></div>
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_6_1404409807498_48"
style="color:rgb(0, 0,
0);font-size:13.3333px;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><span
class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_6443"
style="">- Everywhere else on that page
route=foot is mentioned in the tagging examples.
I don't care whether foot or hiking is chosen,
but it should be everywhere the same.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
Following OSM practices: route=hiking: 49K route=foot: 23K, so I'd
go for increasing hiking.<br>
Random picking in Wallonia is balanced, contagiously.<br>
Would you all mind changing the wiki page to hiking?<br>
But please don't change other contributors' tagging needlessly.
Suggest.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1404415214.38470.YahooMailNeo@web164903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
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<div
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
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sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">
<div class="yiv9142680378" id="yiv9142680378" style="">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_8804"
style="">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_8803"
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_6_1404409807498_52"
style="color:rgb(0, 0,
0);font-size:13.3333px;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><span
class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_6443"
style="">- ref: If a hiking route has a
reference number 33 on the official map and on
the official website, my opinion is that that
number should be chosen as reference, not some
number in that inventaire of the </span>Commissariat
général au Tourisme. Another example is Saint-Ode
which uses references A1 - A7 etc. which are again
much more useful than the numbers on the
inventaire. And for some communties/SI's the
hiking routes in the inventaire have no name, so
it's impossible to know which hiking route one
finds on the field or on the map has which number
in the inventaire.<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
In principle, we should disregard law-breakers and not be
accomplices.<br>
The problem is that 33 is not official at all and, with possibly
several 33, not even a reference number.<br>
Just as if everyone chose his car plate number and were surprised to
receive other persons' fines.<br>
The problem is that when the CGT writes to the municipalities, only
half reply.<br>
In the case TE10 is referred locally as 30, getting them disciplined
would be never ending doing their job.<br>
A compromise would be to pick TE from CGT and 30 from local and make
it TE30.<br>
But that would be yet another ugly system.<br>
The best, regular way I see is, because they don't care for a
reference number and only we and the CGT do, is to use their ID in
the name (or posts) as they do<br>
TE10=30 Chicheux (as displayed on their site) and <br>
SOD05=Moulin des 3 ponts A4 (as in their listings and on the CGT
itself)<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1404415214.38470.YahooMailNeo@web164903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
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<div
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
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<div class="yiv9142680378" id="yiv9142680378" style="">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_8804"
style="">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_8803"
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_6_1404409807498_52"
style="color:rgb(0, 0,
0);font-size:13.3333px;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">-
name: I prefer to use a name as a name, not a
combination of reference and name, or a
combination of reference and community and name.<br
class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_10294"
style="" clear="none">
</div>
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</blockquote>
As I said, let's call them as they call them.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Ben:<br>
What's Wikiloc, and why would it need to be in the ref tag? Are
these wikiloc <br class="yiv9142680378" style="" clear="none">
routes signed at all?<br class="yiv9142680378" style=""
clear="none">
</blockquote>
Just click and read "1,053,692 members ... sharing 2,218,542 trails"
(1G can't be wrong ;-) )<br>
It is a great source of often quality tracks, firstly to provide
missing signed ones...<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1404415214.38470.YahooMailNeo@web164903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
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<div id="yiv9142680378">
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<div
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
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<div class="yiv9142680378" id="yiv9142680378" style="">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_8804"
style="">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_8803"
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_6_1404409807498_52"
style="color:rgb(0, 0,
0);font-size:13.3333px;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">-
wikiloc: The first line on <a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_10287"
style="" target="_blank"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Walking_Routes">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Walking_Routes</a>
says: "Mapping of walking and/or biking routes
must be restricted to routes signposted by an
official tourism agency that is assigning the node
numbers, if any, and writing them to the signs".
So, apparently personal hiking routes which are
not signposted shouldn't be added to OSM...<br
class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_10498"
style="" clear="none">
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
OK, but does that really mean that in regions where no one cares to
signpost hikes and where those WL people find very nice ones, OSM
would be forbidden to do what they're allowed to do?<br>
Avoiding overcrowding areas where already enough hikes exist should
be a better OSM.be rule IMHO.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1404415214.38470.YahooMailNeo@web164903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
<div id="yiv9142680378">
<div>
<div
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">
<div class="yiv9142680378" id="yiv9142680378" style="">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_8804"
style="">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_8803"
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_6_1404409807498_52"
style="color:rgb(0, 0,
0);font-size:13.3333px;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">-
osmc:symbol: perhaps you could refer to <a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_10491"
style="" target="_blank"
href="http://www.waymarkedtrails.org/en/help/rendering/osmc">http://www.waymarkedtrails.org/en/help/rendering/osmc</a>?<br
clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Good idea, but that's a howto.<br>
What I has in mind is a hint where to find the symbol of certain
hikes. See below...<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1404415214.38470.YahooMailNeo@web164903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
<div id="yiv9142680378">
<div>
<div
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">
<div class="yiv9142680378" id="yiv9142680378" style="">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_8804"
style="">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_8803"
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_6_1404409807498_52"
style="color:rgb(0, 0,
0);font-size:13.3333px;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">-
colour=* could also be a useful tag<br
clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Maybe, but what does it do? As often, <a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:colour"
title="Key:colour">Key:<span class="searchmatch">colour</span></a>
is gibberish. "indicate the official color associated with the
object" is nonsense to me.<br>
<br>
Here is below (Below is here) ;-)<br>
How in Wallonia, with only <a
href="http://www.sentiers.be/comprendre-les-chemins-et-sentiers/la-signaletique-et-le-balisage/le-balisage-normalise/">4
plain color icons as I can see</a> since 2007, can we distinguish
hikes by icon?<br>
I know the <a
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_color_theorem">Four color
theorem</a>, but I'd bet they don't and it's irrelevant ;-)<br>
I have filed <a
href="https://github.com/lonvia/waymarked-trails-site/issues/190">Waymarked
issue 190</a> suggesting that the map could display both icon and
ID/ref.<br>
Isn't it particularly appropriate in this case?<br>
Your opinion?<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>André.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1404415214.38470.YahooMailNeo@web164903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
<div id="yiv9142680378">
<div>
<div
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">
<div class="yiv9142680378" id="yiv9142680378" style="">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_8804"
style="">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_8803"
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_6_1404409807498_52"
style="color:rgb(0, 0,
0);font-size:13.3333px;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><br
class="yiv9142680378" style="" clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_6_1404409807498_52"
style="">Regards,</div>
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_8_1404409807498_39"
style=""><br
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_8_1404409807498_44"
clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_8_1404409807498_41"
style="color:rgb(0, 0,
0);font-size:13.3333px;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">StijnRR<br
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_10861" clear="none">
</div>
<br>
<div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="yiv9142680378yqt8484010545"
id="yiv9142680378yqt39487">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yqt02785" style="">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_6_1404409807498_22"
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica
Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;font-size:10pt;">
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_6459"
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica
Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
sans-serif;font-size:12pt;">
<div class="yiv9142680378" dir="ltr"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_6458"
style="">
<hr class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_6469"
style="" size="1"> <font
class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_6465"
style="" size="2" face="Arial"> <b
class="yiv9142680378" style=""><span
class="yiv9142680378"
style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b>
Ben Laenen <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:benlaenen@gmail.com"><benlaenen@gmail.com></a><br
class="yiv9142680378" style=""
clear="none">
<b class="yiv9142680378" style=""><span
class="yiv9142680378"
style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:talk-be@openstreetmap.org">talk-be@openstreetmap.org</a> <br
class="yiv9142680378" style=""
clear="none">
<b class="yiv9142680378" style=""><span
class="yiv9142680378"
style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday, July 3, 2014 7:30 PM<br
class="yiv9142680378" style=""
clear="none">
<b class="yiv9142680378" style=""><span
class="yiv9142680378"
style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Wallonia hiking route
schema<br class="yiv9142680378" style=""
clear="none">
</font> </div>
<div class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_6460"
style=""><br class="yiv9142680378"
style="" clear="none">
On Thursday 03 July 2014 18:28:10 André
Pirard wrote:<br class="yiv9142680378"
style="" clear="none">
> In Wallonia hikes, StijnRR <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_9970"
style="" target="_blank"
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/StijnRR">http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/StijnRR</a>><br
class="yiv9142680378" style=""
clear="none">
> was removing without any notification
ref=ID, changing route=hiking to<br
class="yiv9142680378" style=""
clear="none">
> =foot, removing the ID from name= ...<br
class="yiv9142680378" style=""
clear="none">
> As the documentation was virtually
null, I modified this paragraph<br
class="yiv9142680378" style=""
clear="none">
> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
class="yiv9142680378"
id="yiv9142680378yui_3_16_0_1_1404409807498_9958"
style="" target="_blank"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Walking">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Walking</a><br
class="yiv9142680378" style=""
clear="none">
> _Routes#Wallonie>. Does everybody
agree with the schema?<br
class="yiv9142680378" style=""
clear="none">
<br class="yiv9142680378" style=""
clear="none">
What's Wikiloc, and why would it need to
be in the ref tag? Are these wikiloc <br
class="yiv9142680378" style=""
clear="none">
routes signed at all?<br
class="yiv9142680378" style=""
clear="none">
<br class="yiv9142680378" style=""
clear="none">
route=foot or route=hiking is virtually
the same, I wouldn't worry about it, <br
class="yiv9142680378" style=""
clear="none">
there's probably a big discussion about it
somewhere in the talk mailing list <br
class="yiv9142680378" style=""
clear="none">
archives.<br class="yiv9142680378"
style="" clear="none">
<br class="yiv9142680378" style=""
clear="none">
Ben<br>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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