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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2014-09-09 22:14, Johan C wrote :<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAD=7VotiDk5EwkJFa297=+aQq1Zof9w_dGZs5T2kTOGaccJnNQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">In Nederland heb ik de snelwegen op veel plaatsen
voorzien van bestemmingen. Als bijrijder ben ik in de
gelegenheid geweest om afgelopen maand de bebording op de route
Breda-Antwerpen-Gent-Kortrijk-Lille vice versa te fotograferen.
Die wil ik graag op de manier zoals ik die in Nederland heb
getagd gaan taggen. Dat houdt het volgende in:
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">In the Netherlands I have the highways
in many places equipped destinations. As a passenger, I had
the opportunity to be on the route
Breda-Antwerp-Ghent-Kortrijk-Lille to photograph. Past month
the boarding vice versa I would like the way I tagged in the
Netherlands go tag them. That means the following:</blockquote>
</div>
<div>- invoeren destination details conform de werkwijze op <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Destination_details">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Destination_details</a>,
inclusief het invoeren van het afritnummer met de tag
junction:ref</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">- Enter destination details according
to the procedure on <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Destination_details">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Destination_details</a>,
including entering the exit number junction with the tag:
ref</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<div>- het positioneren van de motorway_junction conform <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Lane_assist/Examples/Motorway_exit">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Lane_assist/Examples/Motorway_exit</a>,
oftewel juist voor de doorgetrokken streep</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">- het positioneren van de
motorway_junction conform <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Lane_assist/Examples/Motorway_exit">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Lane_assist/Examples/Motorway_exit</a>,
oftewel juist voor de doorgetrokken streep</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<div>Het mooie van het toevoegen van de destinations is dat dit
een stap is om een rijstrookassistent te krijgen in OSM. Mijn
op OSM gebaaseerde Garmin is al in staat om de bestemmingen
niet alleen weer te geven maar ook uit te spreken, wat erg
handig is in drukke verkeerssituaties. Diverse andere OSM
routeringsprogramma's ondersteunen de bestemmingen eveneens.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ik wil graag meehelpen om ook andere Belgische snelwegen te
voorzien van de bestemmingen, maar op sommige Belgische
snelwegen kom ik erg weinig tot nooit. Zouden jullie kunnen
helpen door het nemen van foto's van de bebording cq het
opnemen van ritten op de snelwegen met een dashcam?</div>
<blockquote type="cite">The beauty of adding destinations is
that this is a step to get into OSM. Lane guidance My OFM
gebaaseerde Garmin has been able to show the destinations not
only weather but also to speak, which is very convenient in
traffic situations. Various other OSM routing programs also
support the destinations. <br>
<br>
I would like to also help provide the destinations, other
Belgian motorways but some Belgian highways I get very little
or never. Could you help by taking pictures of the signage or
the inclusion of journeys on motorways with a dashcam?</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
Hi Johan,<br>
<br>
As I understand it (1) OSM GPS routers use <tt
style="background-color:#dde; white-space:pre;" dir="ltr"><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination"
title="Key:destination">destination</a>=*</tt> not to compute
the routes, they can do without, but to know what the drivers see
on the signs in order to use the same information in spoken
instructions (e. g. call a lane by its destination if possible).
Similarly for <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref"
title="Key:ref"><tt style="background-color:#dde;
white-space:pre;" dir="ltr">ref=*</tt></a>
and <tt style="background-color:#dde; white-space:pre;" dir="ltr"><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name"
title="Key:name">name</a>=*.<br>
</tt><span style="background-color:#dde; white-space:pre;"><br>
</span>I did not understand every word you wrote, but it looks like
you want the content of the Destination signposting. They are all
here on <a href="https://maps.google.be/maps?">Google Street View</a>.
I'm not sure you can copy the pictures, but pictures is not what is
necessary for OSM: what is written on the road signs is legal
information and cannot be copyrighted.<br>
<br>
<span style="background-color:#dde; white-space:pre;">My survey.<br>
<br>
On E25.<br>
</span><span style="background-color:#dde; white-space:pre;"></span><tt
style="background-color:#dde; white-space:pre;" dir="ltr"><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination"
title="Key:destination">destination</a>=*</tt> is not used<span
style="background-color:#dde; white-space:pre;"> anywhere and </span><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref" title="Key:ref"><span
style="background-color:#dde; white-space:pre;">ref=*</span></a>
is <b>not used</b> on<tt> </tt><tt style="background-color:#dde;
white-space:pre;" dir="ltr"><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway"
title="Key:highway">highway</a>=<a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway_link"
title="Tag:highway=motorway link">motorway_link</a></tt>.<br>
Hence, <b>there is no name to use</b> for a GPS to call a motorway
entrance.<br>
For motorway exits, such a ref is useless but <tt></tt><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref" title="Key:ref"><span
style="background-color:#dde; white-space:pre;">ref=*</span></a>
is used all-right on <tt style="background-color:#dde;
white-space:pre;" dir="ltr"><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway"
title="Key:highway">highway</a>=<a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway_junction"
title="Tag:highway=motorway junction">motorway_junction</a></tt><span
style="background-color:#dde; white-space:pre;">.<br>
</span><br>
<table border="3" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="2">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top">Shouldn't the same <span
style="background-color:#dde; white-space:pre;"></span><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref"
title="Key:ref"><span style="background-color:#dde;
white-space:pre;">ref=*</span></a> as of the motorway be
used on all<tt> </tt><tt style="background-color:#dde;
white-space:pre;" dir="ltr"><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway"
title="Key:highway">highway</a>=<a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway_link"
title="Tag:highway=motorway link">motorway_link</a></tt>?</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
On other major highways.<br>
<tt style="background-color:#dde; white-space:pre;" dir="ltr"><a
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name"
title="Key:name">name</a>=*</tt> is used but the driver sees no
(real) signs (plates) for it.<br>
<a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref" title="Key:ref"><span
style="background-color:#dde; white-space:pre;">ref=*</span></a>
is almost always present but the road sign (e.g. N30) is sometimes
missing on the ground, which is annoying for the driver in a
roundabout or at the fork to two main directions.<br>
<br>
I tried to contact the MET to report a few such cases, but they did
not reply.<br>
<b>Does anyone know</b> how to signal the MET their mistakes or
should we tag for the minister?<br>
<br>
On 2014-09-10 10:12, Sander Deryckere wrote :<br>
<blockquote type="cite">destination:lanes=Brno;Poysdorf;Mistelbach|Brno;Poysdorf;Mistelbach;Graz;Wien|Graz;Wien<br>
destination:ref:lanes=A5|A5;S1;A2|S1;A2<br>
destination:country:lanes=CZ|CZ;SK;H;SLO;I|SK;H;SLO;I<br>
destination:symbol:lanes=|airport|airport<br>
<br>
Are we really trying to hang ourselves?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Let us think before such an extreme outcome :-)<br>
<br>
I'm not a lanes specialist, but it seems to me that lane drawing
topology is enough for routing software to know and tell the driver
which of the lanes (n°1, n°2, n°3) to take to get to another lane
ahead.<br>
So, the question is: what should the GPS tell the driver (click,
choose language, click loudspeaker):<br>
<ul>
<li><a
href="https://translate.google.be/?#en/nl/Take%20a%20lane%20to%0AGraz%3BWien%3B%0AS1%3BA2%3B%0ACzechoslovakia%3BHungary%3BSlovenia%3BItaly%3B%0Aairport%0A%0A.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%0A%0ATake%20a%20lane%20to%0ABrno%3BPoysdorf%3BMistelbach%3B%0AA5%3B%0ACzechoslovakia%3B">That
???</a></li>
<li><a
href="https://translate.google.be/?#en/nl/Take%20a%20lane%20to%20S1%0A%0A.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%0A%0ATake%20a%20lane%20to%20A5">or
this ???</a></li>
</ul>
Is it really necessary to make a mess by trying to spell/translate
every place in/to every language (2)?<br>
Isn't it wiser to use only the (ref) numbering system devised and
used for everybody's convenience?<br>
That's including OSM.<br>
I think that just the destination:ref is necessary, and only if it
cannot be derived from topology.<br>
The names on the signs are for those who drive without GPS and as a
reassuring double check.<br>
Or in the rare cases there would be no refs.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Anyway, that said, I'll never map anything with the :lanes
extension myself, nor will I edit any such tag, but I you're
willing to go through that painful process, I won't stop you.<br>
<br>
</div>
(oh, and if you want cooperation for all Belgian highways, better
also put your message in English or French).<br>
</blockquote>
It worked ;-)<br>
<br>
(1) they can do without them. This is unfortunately badly explained
once again.<br>
(2) I usually listen to Osmand in English.<br>
Easier to understand (must be my ear too) and sounding like
navigating to the moon (add beeps).<br>
But the real fun is trying to understand French names pronounced à
la English !!! :-)<br>
<br>
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<td>André.</td>
</tr>
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