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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2015-03-02 15:40, Sander Deryckere
wrote :<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CABUOUO-urkaq4py6yZ7y8F7CsGMoxfjqR6cJEDEpDf=Y6m0L1g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>I'm a newbie, and I want to make a change in
Brussels (say a new street was created). I look at the
other names, and see they have a name:nl, name:fr and
name tag, the name tag contains both names separated
by a dash. So I add my street using that principle.<br>
<br>
</div>
Do you really think newbies would look if it's a hyphen,
en dash or em dash? <br>
<br>
</div>
So I think, if we choose a default, we should stick to the
keys on the local keyboard (Belgian AZERTY), and
preferably on the more international keyboard layouts
(like USA International - that's the default USA QWERTY
with a big number of alternative keys added to support
multiple languages).<br>
<br>
</div>
The other option is we don't choose a default, and accept
multiple ones, like spaced hyphens, spaced en dashes, spaced
or non-spaced em dashes, ... But I agree that it would be
nice to have a guideline at least. And in that case, my vote
goes to the spaced hyphen as in "name - name". <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>But this is in fact for the Brussels community to decide.
I don't go to Brussels a lot, so I can't do many valuable
contributions there.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
</div>
</div>
Sander<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
On 2015-03-02 15:09, Jo wrote :<br>
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<div>
<div>
<div>In the name itself, there are no spaces around the -.
So the separator between to languages is really " - "
including the spaces.<br>
<br>
</div>
We do have a problem for a very few streets which have 2
names because they are on the border between two
municipalities and which we want to give 2 names to be
"linguistically correct", but there aren't very many of
those.<br>
<br>
</div>
Using an em-dash is fine with me, as long as it can be done as
a mechanical edit, as I can't type them indeed and I'm not
going to copy/paste them one by one.<br>
<br>
</div>
Jo<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I practically agree with Jo and Sander.<br>
But I think that a newbie <span>can make any mistake like typing
Saint - Josse... and that why he doesn't use em dashes is because
he doesn't see any (anywhere) and because there is no OSM
specification for that.<br>
<br>
So, I think that those who want to use a different character do
the right thing and the others don't care.<br>
Remember that my primary point is not to <b>remove</b> em dashes
without specifying a different character.<br>
<br>
Now, regarding the em dash itself, should we really "tag for the
keyboard"?<br>
Is it because, unlike Unix, Windows is keyboard-disabled that OSM
should be character-disabled?<br>
Or should we recommend to use a proper keyboard driver instead?<br>
This is exactly the same issue as typing oe instead of œ, which is
a spelling mistake (and not using a spelling checker that will
detect that mistake). But that doesn't seem apparent in all
languages.<br>
But it's sure apparent in English when they want to type <a
href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ch%C3%A2teau">the
names in their dictionaries</a>.<br>
And there are <a
href="http://overpass-turbo.eu/?q=LyoKVGhpcyBoYcSGYmVlbiBnxI1lcmF0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIG92xJJwxIlzLXR1cmJvIHdpemFyZC7EgsSdxJ9yaWdpbmFsIHNlxLBjaMSsxIk6CsOiwoDCnMS7bWV-PW9lxYjCnQoqLwpbb3V0Ompzb25dW3RpxYzFmcWbMjVdOwovL8SPxJTEnXIgcmVzdWx0cwooCiAgxa0gcXXEksSaxKNydCBmb3I6IMWIxYphxYx-xZDFksW9IG5vZGVbIsWLZSJ-IsWQIl0oe3tixKp4fX0pxavFvndhecacxp7GoMaixp_GpcanxqlvxqvGrcavxbNlbMSUacWfxrTGkcafxqHGo8a5xqjGqsasxq4Kx4_GgHDEt27GiMW0xbbFuMW6xabEmMaZecWrPsWrx5tza8eBxoF0Ow&c=BL7SAEs6IK&R">many
spelling errors of that type in OSM</a> because of Windows.
(Don't run this over Flanders or Germany and ignore imported words
like koekoe; but I know some people who will rush running it over
France: "<a
href="http://overpass-turbo.eu/?q=LyoKVGhpcyBoYcSGYmVlbiBnxI1lcmF0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIG92xJJwxIlzLXR1cmJvIHdpemFyZC7EgsSdxJ9yaWdpbmFsIHNlxLBjaMSsxIk6CsOiwoDCnCLEu21lIn4ib8WOxYjCnQoqLwpbb3V0Ompzb25dW3RpxY3Fm8WdMjVdOwovL8SPxJTEnXIgcmVzdWx0cwooCiAgxa8gcXXEksSaxKNydCBmb3I6IMWIwpzFjGV-xZLFlMW_IG5vZGVbxYthxY3Fj8WRxY5dKHt7YsSqeH19KcWtxoB3YXnGnsaTxqLFkiLGpcanxqlvxqvGrcavxbVlbMSUacWhxrTGoMWOxZDGt8a5xqjGqsasxq4Kx4_GgnDEt27GisW2xbjFusW8xajEmMabecWtPsWtx5tza8eBxoN0Ow&c=BKoGQIDmsL&R">Visit
Paris in 2 days</a>": Belgian people should Osmose France <span
class="moz-smiley-s3"><span> ;-) </span></span>).<br>
Recommending a proper keyboard driver (or Linux) would be killing
a whole swarm with one stone.<br>
</span>Fuzzy or not fuzzy, that is the question.<br>
<br>
Cheers
<br>
<br>
<table>
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<td>André.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CABUOUO-urkaq4py6yZ7y8F7CsGMoxfjqR6cJEDEpDf=Y6m0L1g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">2015-03-02 15:09 GMT+01:00 Jo <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:winfixit@gmail.com" target="_blank">winfixit@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>In the name itself, there are no spaces around
the -. So the separator between to languages is
really " - " including the spaces.<br>
<br>
</div>
We do have a problem for a very few streets which have
2 names because they are on the border between two
municipalities and which we want to give 2 names to be
"linguistically correct", but there aren't very many
of those.<br>
<br>
</div>
Using an em-dash is fine with me, as long as it can be
done as a mechanical edit, as I can't type them indeed
and I'm not going to copy/paste them one by one.<br>
<br>
</div>
Jo<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div class="h5">2015-03-02 14:55 GMT+01:00 André
Pirard <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:A.Pirard.Papou@gmail.com"
target="_blank">A.Pirard.Papou@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="h5">
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<div>On 2015-03-01 17:13, Frédéric Rodrigo wrote
:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">English bellow. <br>
</blockquote>
Walloon cock-a-doodle-do <span><span> ;-) </span></span><br>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
<br>
Bonjour, <br>
<br>
J'ai ajouté une analyse spécifique aux zones
multilingues dans Osmose. Elle n'est pour
l'instant active que sur le Maroc et pour la
région de Bruxelles. <br>
<br>
Pour Bruxelles l'analyse s'attend à retrouver
les tags name, name:fr et name:nl avec
"[name]" = "[name:fr] - [name:nl]" ou "[name]"
= "[name:fr] - [name:nl]". Elle détecte des
manques et des incohérences et propose des
corrections. <br>
<br>
Si vous relevé des problèmes produit par cette
analyses n'hésitez pas à me les remonter. <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"> Sur la carte : <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/#zoom=12&lat=35.7667&lon=-5.8256&item=5060&level=1%2C2%2C3"
target="_blank">http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/#zoom=12&lat=35.7667&lon=-5.8256&item=5060&level=1%2C2%2C3</a>
<br>
<br>
Et la liste des erreurs : <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/errors/?country=belgium_brussels_capital_region&item=5060"
target="_blank">http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/errors/?country=belgium_brussels_capital_region&item=5060</a>
<br>
<br>
------------------ <br>
<br>
Hi, <br>
<br>
I added a specific analysis on multilingual
areas on Osmose QA. It is currently only
active on Morocco and for the Brussels region.
<br>
<br>
Brussels analysis attempts to retrieve the
tags name, name:fr and name:nl with "[name]" =
"[name:fr] - [name:nl]" or "[name]" =
"[name:fr] - [name:nl]". It detects missing
and inconsistencies and show possible
corrections. <br>
<br>
If you see any problems with this analyzes do
not hesitate to let me know. <br>
<br>
On the map: <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/#zoom=12&lat=35.7667&lon=-5.8256&item=5060&level=1%2C2%2C3"
target="_blank">http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/#zoom=12&lat=35.7667&lon=-5.8256&item=5060&level=1%2C2%2C3</a>
<br>
<br>
And the errors list: <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/errors/?country=belgium_brussels_capital_region&item=5060"
target="_blank">http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/errors/?country=belgium_brussels_capital_region&item=5060</a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Frédéric. <br>
</blockquote>
Hi,<br>
<br>
There is an issue with names containing dashes
being separated with dashes (<span>Saint-Josse-ten-Noode
- Sint-Joost-ten-Node). That is as
syntactically incorrect as separating with ","
or ";" strings containing those characters.
Verdy_p solved that issue elegantly by using
em dash instead </span>(<span>Saint-Josse-ten-Noode
— Sint-Joost-ten-Node)</span><span>.<br>
I don't understand why some people developed
hatred for the em dash, maybe because Windows'
keyboard is short of easily typing even one's
own language characters (like œ, my Ubuntu
makes them <compose>oe and
<compose>---), maybe because it's mixed
with other considerations, but the fact is
that </span><span>Frederik Ramm from the DWG
is vandalizing Verdy_p's work all over the
world (no less) by reverting his updates
regardless of what they're doing, maybe
introducing an em dash together with making
corrections. Yes, dames en heren, the DWG is
introducing mistakes in OSM (no less).<br>
I respect people hating em dash, but they
should open a vote for another character then.<br>
</span>I already discussed this issue on this
list, mais ... les paroles s'envolent.<br>
Or maybe OSM is fuzzy, and no that does no make
me feel good.<br>
<br>
Cheers <br>
<span><font color="#888888"> <br>
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>André.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
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</font></span><br>
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